What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

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What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Raju Bitter
It has been more than half a year since Adobe announced that they are
going to donate Flex to the Apache Foundation. The community has been
very active to work on a first 4.8 Apache Flex release.

What are your experiences with colleagues, friends and maybe customers
when you talk about the Apache Flex project? Do they see the whole
effort as something very positive, or is the general attitude more
like: "Let's see if Flex is going to survive as an Apache project".

I have the feeling that more people seem to realize that HTML5 apps
are not as perfect/powerful as they thought they'd be, but at the same
time the general interest in Flash - outside the online game industry
- seems to be relatively low. I can imagine that a first 4.8 release
will convince people that Apache Flex is going to be successful ASF
project.

I'd be really interested in what your experiences have been in the
past months, as Flex experts, project managers, evangelists...

- Raju

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Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

John DiRuggiero
Successfully building mobile apps has been achieved through development on the Flex framework. I see Flex as indicated by the name as flexible and the power and elegance of ActionScript 3 makes one hope that Apache Flex will continue to be successful and continue to collectively grow.
- John D.




On Jun 27, 2012, at 3:53 AM, Raju Bitter wrote:

> It has been more than half a year since Adobe announced that they are
> going to donate Flex to the Apache Foundation. The community has been
> very active to work on a first 4.8 Apache Flex release.
>
> What are your experiences with colleagues, friends and maybe customers
> when you talk about the Apache Flex project? Do they see the whole
> effort as something very positive, or is the general attitude more
> like: "Let's see if Flex is going to survive as an Apache project".
>
> I have the feeling that more people seem to realize that HTML5 apps
> are not as perfect/powerful as they thought they'd be, but at the same
> time the general interest in Flash - outside the online game industry
> - seems to be relatively low. I can imagine that a first 4.8 release
> will convince people that Apache Flex is going to be successful ASF
> project.
>
> I'd be really interested in what your experiences have been in the
> past months, as Flex experts, project managers, evangelists...
>
> - Raju

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RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Scott Matheson
Hi
    I would say there are a number of issue, HTML / Java script is not the way for complex development unless you develop with a  commercial tool, then you are back in to tie in problem, so no  , HTML / Java script is not the answer

The lack of visibility "marketing" of the community efforts does hurt management view of the future

The real issue is the statements from OS providers and apparent lack of flash player support in new products, Microsoft W8 tiles, new MS pad, flash player in browsers etc. is just confusing, and unless you have time to understand the details of each and every statement you just get confused, I know that is the purpose of these companies

So all this confusion drives you to HTML / Java script

What we want to know is that they is a real effort from the community to create flex compilers that will generate HTML / Java script or some other run time that gives us back the build once run any place, IMHO this is the key to keeping enterprises working with Flex, we have to live with our work for 5-10 years, we need protection from Microsoft, Apple, Google etc.

Scott


-----Original Message-----
From: John DiRuggiero [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:26 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Successfully building mobile apps has been achieved through development on the Flex framework. I see Flex as indicated by the name as flexible and the power and elegance of ActionScript 3 makes one hope that Apache Flex will continue to be successful and continue to collectively grow.
- John D.




On Jun 27, 2012, at 3:53 AM, Raju Bitter wrote:

> It has been more than half a year since Adobe announced that they are
> going to donate Flex to the Apache Foundation. The community has been
> very active to work on a first 4.8 Apache Flex release.
>
> What are your experiences with colleagues, friends and maybe customers
> when you talk about the Apache Flex project? Do they see the whole
> effort as something very positive, or is the general attitude more
> like: "Let's see if Flex is going to survive as an Apache project".
>
> I have the feeling that more people seem to realize that HTML5 apps
> are not as perfect/powerful as they thought they'd be, but at the same
> time the general interest in Flash - outside the online game industry
> - seems to be relatively low. I can imagine that a first 4.8 release
> will convince people that Apache Flex is going to be successful ASF
> project.
>
> I'd be really interested in what your experiences have been in the
> past months, as Flex experts, project managers, evangelists...
>
> - Raju


________________________________

Disclaimer: This electronic mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of this email and any attachments. Thank you.

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Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Gary Griswold-2
Hi,

While I agree in general with the last three emails on the importance of Flex, I am worried.  In the last 6 months since Apache started work on Flex, I have seen no discussion about features, and no plans of development.  So, while I really want Flex to survive and grow, I am among those who are worried that my recent development work might all need to be rewritten (or hopefully) converted to JS.  If any of you know where concrete information about plans and progress can be found, I think it needs to made more available to the public.

The following link was last updated in April when there was a conference, and only mentioned some of the more important attendees, but no substance.  There was a link to the 360flex conference, which I viewed over the web.
https://blogs.apache.org/flex/

The conference was encouraging that Adobe was donating a little more work soon to be finished, but the conference gave little to no indication of what was going to happen to Flex within Apache.
http://www.360flex.com/

The following link does announce 4.6, which as I understand it, is a near equivalent to Adobe 4.5, and this is an important step, but where does the project go from here?
http://incubator.apache.org/flex/

If the Apache Flex wants people to believe in the future of Flex a much better job has to be done delivering information about possible features considered, features to be included, plans for development, and release schedules.

Gary


On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:14 AM, Scott Matheson wrote:

> Hi
>    I would say there are a number of issue, HTML / Java script is not the way for complex development unless you develop with a  commercial tool, then you are back in to tie in problem, so no  , HTML / Java script is not the answer
>
> The lack of visibility "marketing" of the community efforts does hurt management view of the future
>
> The real issue is the statements from OS providers and apparent lack of flash player support in new products, Microsoft W8 tiles, new MS pad, flash player in browsers etc. is just confusing, and unless you have time to understand the details of each and every statement you just get confused, I know that is the purpose of these companies
>
> So all this confusion drives you to HTML / Java script
>
> What we want to know is that they is a real effort from the community to create flex compilers that will generate HTML / Java script or some other run time that gives us back the build once run any place, IMHO this is the key to keeping enterprises working with Flex, we have to live with our work for 5-10 years, we need protection from Microsoft, Apple, Google etc.
>
> Scott
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John DiRuggiero [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:26 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?
>
> Successfully building mobile apps has been achieved through development on the Flex framework. I see Flex as indicated by the name as flexible and the power and elegance of ActionScript 3 makes one hope that Apache Flex will continue to be successful and continue to collectively grow.
> - John D.
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 3:53 AM, Raju Bitter wrote:
>
>> It has been more than half a year since Adobe announced that they are
>> going to donate Flex to the Apache Foundation. The community has been
>> very active to work on a first 4.8 Apache Flex release.
>>
>> What are your experiences with colleagues, friends and maybe customers
>> when you talk about the Apache Flex project? Do they see the whole
>> effort as something very positive, or is the general attitude more
>> like: "Let's see if Flex is going to survive as an Apache project".
>>
>> I have the feeling that more people seem to realize that HTML5 apps
>> are not as perfect/powerful as they thought they'd be, but at the same
>> time the general interest in Flash - outside the online game industry
>> - seems to be relatively low. I can imagine that a first 4.8 release
>> will convince people that Apache Flex is going to be successful ASF
>> project.
>>
>> I'd be really interested in what your experiences have been in the
>> past months, as Flex experts, project managers, evangelists...
>>
>> - Raju
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Disclaimer: This electronic mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of this email and any attachments. Thank you.

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Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Jeffry Houser
On 6/27/2012 9:57 AM, Gary Griswold wrote:
> Hi,
>
> While I agree in general with the last three emails on the importance of Flex, I am worried.  In the last 6 months since Apache started work on Flex, I have seen no discussion about features, and no plans of development.
   You should check out the mailing list archives, then. (
http://markmail.org/search/+list:org.apache.incubator.flex-dev ).
   Additionally, you may want to check out the whiteboard area of the
Apache Flex SVN.  You'll see a lot of people have done a lot of
different things.


> The conference was encouraging that Adobe was donating a little more work soon to be finished, but the conference gave little to no indication of what was going to happen to Flex within Apache.
> http://www.360flex.com/
  Where you there?  I remember being on a panel with lots of other
contributors; and we all spoke about the stuff we were interested in
doing related to Apache.

> If the Apache Flex wants people to believe in the future of Flex a much better job has to be done delivering information about possible features considered, features to be included, plans for development, and release schedules.

   When you're a corporation (like say Adobe), release schedules exist
because they relate to revenue streams and quarterly profits. Apache, as
a volunteer organization, does not have anything so formalized.  People
generally work on things that they need; or want.  Releases will happen
"whenever we feel like it."  And releases can be as simple as a single
bug fix that someone felt was important to get out there ASAP.

  Once we get a formal release, and figure out how to make releases in
the context of Apache, I expect you'll see more releases from Apache
Flex than you ever saw from Adobe. However, I also expect the releases
will be less "jaw dropping."

--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust


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RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Desai, Ashish S
In reply to this post by Scott Matheson
I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash Player Runtime.

While there are similar JavaScript libraries/projects with comparable performance, I think more and more enterprises are embracing those technologies and using cross-compilers to deploy to multiple devices.

There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of flex. I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player Plugins and Runtimes.

The business community needs answers as to how long are the doors on Flex going to stay open, and there has not been a promising answer yet.

Thanks,
Ashish

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Matheson [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 7:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Hi
    I would say there are a number of issue, HTML / Java script is not the way for complex development unless you develop with a  commercial tool, then you are back in to tie in problem, so no  , HTML / Java script is not the answer

The lack of visibility "marketing" of the community efforts does hurt management view of the future

The real issue is the statements from OS providers and apparent lack of flash player support in new products, Microsoft W8 tiles, new MS pad, flash player in browsers etc. is just confusing, and unless you have time to understand the details of each and every statement you just get confused, I know that is the purpose of these companies

So all this confusion drives you to HTML / Java script

What we want to know is that they is a real effort from the community to create flex compilers that will generate HTML / Java script or some other run time that gives us back the build once run any place, IMHO this is the key to keeping enterprises working with Flex, we have to live with our work for 5-10 years, we need protection from Microsoft, Apple, Google etc.

Scott


-----Original Message-----
From: John DiRuggiero [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:26 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Successfully building mobile apps has been achieved through development on the Flex framework. I see Flex as indicated by the name as flexible and the power and elegance of ActionScript 3 makes one hope that Apache Flex will continue to be successful and continue to collectively grow.
- John D.




On Jun 27, 2012, at 3:53 AM, Raju Bitter wrote:

> It has been more than half a year since Adobe announced that they are
> going to donate Flex to the Apache Foundation. The community has been
> very active to work on a first 4.8 Apache Flex release.
>
> What are your experiences with colleagues, friends and maybe customers
> when you talk about the Apache Flex project? Do they see the whole
> effort as something very positive, or is the general attitude more
> like: "Let's see if Flex is going to survive as an Apache project".
>
> I have the feeling that more people seem to realize that HTML5 apps
> are not as perfect/powerful as they thought they'd be, but at the same
> time the general interest in Flash - outside the online game industry
> - seems to be relatively low. I can imagine that a first 4.8 release
> will convince people that Apache Flex is going to be successful ASF
> project.
>
> I'd be really interested in what your experiences have been in the
> past months, as Flex experts, project managers, evangelists...
>
> - Raju


________________________________

Disclaimer: This electronic mail and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of this email and any attachments. Thank you.
This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.

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Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Jeffry Houser
On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash Player Runtime.
   Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework
from the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.

> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of flex.

  Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route.  The Flex project
is "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
priorities.  That is different from a formal product from a public
corporation.  For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.

> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player Plugins and Runtimes.
  And how can we help you with that?


--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust


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Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Brett Adam
IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued relevance and an opportunity to grow.

I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever Flash has been mentioned by a presenter.

To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run the severs as well.  Opposition on two fronts.

As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.

The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency and breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components and tooling.

Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO

Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.

$0.02

Brett



Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash Player Runtime.
>  Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
>
>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of flex.
>
> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route.  The Flex project is "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and priorities.  That is different from a formal product from a public corporation.  For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>
>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player Plugins and Runtimes.
> And how can we help you with that?
>
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> 203-379-0773
> --
> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> --
> http://www.theflexshow.com
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> --
> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>

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RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Desai, Ashish S
In reply to this post by Jeffry Houser
Decoupling flex framework from Adobe runtimes is amazing idea; however would that not require building direct flex-framework to browser compatibility from ground up.  By then major enterprises would have converted to other technologies if we do not have right communication on our plan.

While I am not at all against Flex (because it's without doubt amazing), but thinking about it, I wouldn't say that it's wrong to think about migration to HTML if we don't have clear vision on what the future is like.

Agreed that for next few years enterprises are not upgrading their Operating systems to Windows 8 or OS X. But, a million dollar question that haunts us, what if they do? There has to be a mitigation plan, no?

So the point is, we as an active Apache Flex community, must publicly communicate the possibilities like the beautiful decoupling ideas and re-gain trust so that Major OS providers are compelled to continuing to support the runtimes or at-least come with alternatives.

And sure, we are happy to open a dialog.

Thanks,
Ashish


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:58 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash Player Runtime.
   Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.

> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of flex.

  Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route.  The Flex project is "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and priorities.  That is different from a formal product from a public corporation.  For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.

> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player Plugins and Runtimes.
  And how can we help you with that?


--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust

This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.

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Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Gary Griswold-2
In reply to this post by Brett Adam
Hi,

I would like to second Brett's motion.  The best possible direction for Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices.  Some animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex developers would miss them.  And someone would need to develop the big components, like DataGrid and Charts.  I don't know how many people need Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features.  Possibly, some complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make the transition to JS.

Gary


On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:

> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued relevance and an opportunity to grow.
>
> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever Flash has been mentioned by a presenter.
>
> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run the severs as well.  Opposition on two fronts.
>
> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
>
> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency and breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components and tooling.
>
> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
>
> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
>
> $0.02
>
> Brett
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash Player Runtime.
>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
>>
>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of flex.
>>
>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route.  The Flex project is "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and priorities.  That is different from a formal product from a public corporation.  For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>>
>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player Plugins and Runtimes.
>> And how can we help you with that?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeffry Houser
>> Technical Entrepreneur
>> 203-379-0773
>> --
>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
>> --
>> http://www.theflexshow.com
>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
>> --
>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>>


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RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Desai, Ashish S
Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building cross compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime does and then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world would want to use.

Thanks,
Ashish


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Griswold [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary Griswold
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Hi,

I would like to second Brett's motion.  The best possible direction for Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices.  Some animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex developers would miss them.  And someone would need to develop the big components, like DataGrid and Charts.  I don't know how many people need Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features.  Possibly, some complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make the transition to JS.

Gary


On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:

> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued relevance and an opportunity to grow.
>
> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever Flash has been mentioned by a presenter.
>
> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run the severs as well.  Opposition on two fronts.
>
> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
>
> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency and breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components and tooling.
>
> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
>
> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
>
> $0.02
>
> Brett
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash Player Runtime.
>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
>>
>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of flex.
>>
>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route.  The Flex project is "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and priorities.  That is different from a formal product from a public corporation.  For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>>
>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player Plugins and Runtimes.
>> And how can we help you with that?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeffry Houser
>> Technical Entrepreneur
>> 203-379-0773
>> --
>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
>> --
>> http://www.theflexshow.com
>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
>> --
>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>>

This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.

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Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Dahn Maier
In reply to this post by Brett Adam
I think we need to be honest - except for the developers of Flex (who
understand the benefits intimately) the world out there is separated in two
categories:
- people who want Flash gone
- people who don't care

As we all know from economics - the crowd sentiment is a powerful driver.

Also I have recently read an article attesting that Flash shaves about 2
hours of battery life on a mac laptop. If there was ever an argument
against Flash this one is it for me.

Let's ask a different question - who else other than the people who know it
will want to use it once HTML + js have caught up? In other words how much
effort does one want to put into it for a 3-5 yrs max survival rate? (not
to mention the dependecy on the FlashPlayer which is a). not open source,
b). going the game route with explicit statements by Adobe that it might
not be backwards compatible with the Flex sdk).

That being said the develop once / deploy all proposition is extremely
powerful. It looks to me like a cross compiler to HTML / javascript is the
most important and viable road to take at the moment.

+= $0.02

Dahn

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam <[hidden email]> wrote:

> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued relevance
> and an opportunity to grow.
>
> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated derisive
> laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever Flash has been
> mentioned by a presenter.
>
> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser
> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run the
> severs as well.  Opposition on two fronts.
>
> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to do
> JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
>
> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency and
> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components and
> tooling.
>
> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
>
> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
>
> $0.02
>
> Brett
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> >> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in
> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large
> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future
> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash
> Player Runtime.
> >  Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from
> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
> >
> >> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of
> flex.
> >
> > Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route.  The Flex project is
> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
> priorities.  That is different from a formal product from a public
> corporation.  For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
> >
> >> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into
> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player
> Plugins and Runtimes.
> > And how can we help you with that?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeffry Houser
> > Technical Entrepreneur
> > 203-379-0773
> > --
> > http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> > UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> > --
> > http://www.theflexshow.com
> > http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> > http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> > --
> > Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
> >
>



--
Dahn Maier
Maier Inc.
[hidden email]
917.596.3685

------------------------------
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it is addressed and it may contain privileged and confidential information.
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RE: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Jonathan Campos
In reply to this post by Desai, Ashish S
While I enjoy watching the banter this exact conversation has played out
many times before.

So let me skip to the end.

You, have an amazing idea to completely change Flex and make it super
awesome.

We, are a community happy to help and develop.

Rather than spending effort sending emails start coding. With code people
can see direction and join up and take action.

You want a cross compiler?! Awesome! Start making it and others will
follow. I know of many side projects in the work all to help the community.
I have one of my own right now.

The most helpful thing you can do is start writing code or making a plan of
attack that others can join in on. So let's get back to coding and make
something amazing.
On Jun 27, 2012 8:35 AM, "Desai, Ashish S" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building cross
> compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime does and
> then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world would want
> to use.
>
> Thanks,
> Ashish
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Griswold [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary
> Griswold
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in
> mid 2012?
>
> Hi,
>
> I would like to second Brett's motion.  The best possible direction for
> Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices.  Some
> animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex
> developers would miss them.  And someone would need to develop the big
> components, like DataGrid and Charts.  I don't know how many people need
> Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features.  Possibly, some
> complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make the
> transition to JS.
>
> Gary
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
>
> > IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued
> relevance and an opportunity to grow.
> >
> > I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated
> derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever Flash
> has been mentioned by a presenter.
> >
> > To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser
> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run the
> severs as well.  Opposition on two fronts.
> >
> > As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to
> do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
> >
> > The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency and
> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components and
> tooling.
> >
> > Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
> >
> > Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
> >
> > $0.02
> >
> > Brett
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> >>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in
> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large
> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future
> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash
> Player Runtime.
> >> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from
> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
> >>
> >>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of
> flex.
> >>
> >> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route.  The Flex project is
> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
> priorities.  That is different from a formal product from a public
> corporation.  For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
> >>
> >>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into
> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player
> Plugins and Runtimes.
> >> And how can we help you with that?
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jeffry Houser
> >> Technical Entrepreneur
> >> 203-379-0773
> >> --
> >> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> >> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> >> --
> >> http://www.theflexshow.com
> >> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> >> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> >> --
> >> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
> >>
>
> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
>
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Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Gary Griswold-2
Hi,

I am the sole software developer of a small publisher and I do that as a volunteer.  It is not feasible that I would also contribute to the Flex project, but the author of this last 'rant' works at Google.  If Google is permitting you to work on Flex then the rest of us who use Flex are greatly indebted to you.

But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should have no voice in the process?

Gary


On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:41 AM, Jonathan Campos wrote:

> While I enjoy watching the banter this exact conversation has played out
> many times before.
>
> So let me skip to the end.
>
> You, have an amazing idea to completely change Flex and make it super
> awesome.
>
> We, are a community happy to help and develop.
>
> Rather than spending effort sending emails start coding. With code people
> can see direction and join up and take action.
>
> You want a cross compiler?! Awesome! Start making it and others will
> follow. I know of many side projects in the work all to help the community.
> I have one of my own right now.
>
> The most helpful thing you can do is start writing code or making a plan of
> attack that others can join in on. So let's get back to coding and make
> something amazing.
> On Jun 27, 2012 8:35 AM, "Desai, Ashish S" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building cross
>> compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime does and
>> then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world would want
>> to use.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ashish
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gary Griswold [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary
>> Griswold
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in
>> mid 2012?
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to second Brett's motion.  The best possible direction for
>> Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices.  Some
>> animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex
>> developers would miss them.  And someone would need to develop the big
>> components, like DataGrid and Charts.  I don't know how many people need
>> Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features.  Possibly, some
>> complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make the
>> transition to JS.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
>>
>>> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued
>> relevance and an opportunity to grow.
>>>
>>> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated
>> derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever Flash
>> has been mentioned by a presenter.
>>>
>>> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser
>> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run the
>> severs as well.  Opposition on two fronts.
>>>
>>> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to
>> do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
>>>
>>> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency and
>> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components and
>> tooling.
>>>
>>> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
>>>
>>> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
>>>
>>> $0.02
>>>
>>> Brett
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
>>>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in
>> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for large
>> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the future
>> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash
>> Player Runtime.
>>>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from
>> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
>>>>
>>>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
>> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future of
>> flex.
>>>>
>>>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route.  The Flex project is
>> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
>> priorities.  That is different from a formal product from a public
>> corporation.  For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>>>>
>>>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get into
>> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player
>> Plugins and Runtimes.
>>>> And how can we help you with that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jeffry Houser
>>>> Technical Entrepreneur
>>>> 203-379-0773
>>>> --
>>>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
>>>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
>>>> --
>>>> http://www.theflexshow.com
>>>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
>>>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
>>>> --
>>>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>>>>
>>
>> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
>> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
>> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
>> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
>> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
>>


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Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Peter Elst
Sorry if I missed something - what author of the last 'rant' are you
referring to - would be nice to hear if there's a colleague at Google
involved in Apache Flex.

- Peter


On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Gary Griswold <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am the sole software developer of a small publisher and I do that as a
> volunteer.  It is not feasible that I would also contribute to the Flex
> project, but the author of this last 'rant' works at Google.  If Google is
> permitting you to work on Flex then the rest of us who use Flex are greatly
> indebted to you.
>
> But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should have
> no voice in the process?
>
> Gary
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:41 AM, Jonathan Campos wrote:
>
> > While I enjoy watching the banter this exact conversation has played out
> > many times before.
> >
> > So let me skip to the end.
> >
> > You, have an amazing idea to completely change Flex and make it super
> > awesome.
> >
> > We, are a community happy to help and develop.
> >
> > Rather than spending effort sending emails start coding. With code people
> > can see direction and join up and take action.
> >
> > You want a cross compiler?! Awesome! Start making it and others will
> > follow. I know of many side projects in the work all to help the
> community.
> > I have one of my own right now.
> >
> > The most helpful thing you can do is start writing code or making a plan
> of
> > attack that others can join in on. So let's get back to coding and make
> > something amazing.
> > On Jun 27, 2012 8:35 AM, "Desai, Ashish S" <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building cross
> >> compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime does
> and
> >> then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world would
> want
> >> to use.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Ashish
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Gary Griswold [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary
> >> Griswold
> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in
> >> mid 2012?
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I would like to second Brett's motion.  The best possible direction for
> >> Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices.  Some
> >> animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex
> >> developers would miss them.  And someone would need to develop the big
> >> components, like DataGrid and Charts.  I don't know how many people need
> >> Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features.  Possibly, some
> >> complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make
> the
> >> transition to JS.
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
> >>
> >>> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued
> >> relevance and an opportunity to grow.
> >>>
> >>> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated
> >> derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever
> Flash
> >> has been mentioned by a presenter.
> >>>
> >>> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser
> >> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run
> the
> >> severs as well.  Opposition on two fronts.
> >>>
> >>> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to
> >> do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
> >>>
> >>> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency
> and
> >> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components
> and
> >> tooling.
> >>>
> >>> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
> >>>
> >>> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
> >>>
> >>> $0.02
> >>>
> >>> Brett
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> >>>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in
> >> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for
> large
> >> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the
> future
> >> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash
> >> Player Runtime.
> >>>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from
> >> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
> >>>>
> >>>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
> >> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future
> of
> >> flex.
> >>>>
> >>>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route.  The Flex project
> is
> >> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
> >> priorities.  That is different from a formal product from a public
> >> corporation.  For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get
> into
> >> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player
> >> Plugins and Runtimes.
> >>>> And how can we help you with that?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Jeffry Houser
> >>>> Technical Entrepreneur
> >>>> 203-379-0773
> >>>> --
> >>>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> >>>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> >>>> --
> >>>> http://www.theflexshow.com
> >>>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> >>>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> >>>> --
> >>>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
> >>>>
> >>
> >> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> >> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> >> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> >> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> >> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
> >>
>
>
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Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Gary Griswold-2
Peter,

Sorry, it was my mistake.  I was referring to Jonathan Campo's recent call for us to all get to work.  But, in re-reading the email I see that he has a gmail address, and is probably not a google employee.

Gary


On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:54 AM, Peter Elst wrote:

> Sorry if I missed something - what author of the last 'rant' are you
> referring to - would be nice to hear if there's a colleague at Google
> involved in Apache Flex.
>
> - Peter
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Gary Griswold <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am the sole software developer of a small publisher and I do that as a
>> volunteer.  It is not feasible that I would also contribute to the Flex
>> project, but the author of this last 'rant' works at Google.  If Google is
>> permitting you to work on Flex then the rest of us who use Flex are greatly
>> indebted to you.
>>
>> But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should have
>> no voice in the process?
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:41 AM, Jonathan Campos wrote:
>>
>>> While I enjoy watching the banter this exact conversation has played out
>>> many times before.
>>>
>>> So let me skip to the end.
>>>
>>> You, have an amazing idea to completely change Flex and make it super
>>> awesome.
>>>
>>> We, are a community happy to help and develop.
>>>
>>> Rather than spending effort sending emails start coding. With code people
>>> can see direction and join up and take action.
>>>
>>> You want a cross compiler?! Awesome! Start making it and others will
>>> follow. I know of many side projects in the work all to help the
>> community.
>>> I have one of my own right now.
>>>
>>> The most helpful thing you can do is start writing code or making a plan
>> of
>>> attack that others can join in on. So let's get back to coding and make
>>> something amazing.
>>> On Jun 27, 2012 8:35 AM, "Desai, Ashish S" <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building cross
>>>> compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime does
>> and
>>>> then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world would
>> want
>>>> to use.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Ashish
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Gary Griswold [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary
>>>> Griswold
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in
>>>> mid 2012?
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I would like to second Brett's motion.  The best possible direction for
>>>> Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices.  Some
>>>> animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex
>>>> developers would miss them.  And someone would need to develop the big
>>>> components, like DataGrid and Charts.  I don't know how many people need
>>>> Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features.  Possibly, some
>>>> complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make
>> the
>>>> transition to JS.
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued
>>>> relevance and an opportunity to grow.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated
>>>> derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever
>> Flash
>>>> has been mentioned by a presenter.
>>>>>
>>>>> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser
>>>> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run
>> the
>>>> severs as well.  Opposition on two fronts.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to
>>>> do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
>>>>>
>>>>> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency
>> and
>>>> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components
>> and
>>>> tooling.
>>>>>
>>>>> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
>>>>>
>>>>> $0.02
>>>>>
>>>>> Brett
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
>>>>>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in
>>>> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for
>> large
>>>> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the
>> future
>>>> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash
>>>> Player Runtime.
>>>>>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from
>>>> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
>>>> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future
>> of
>>>> flex.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route.  The Flex project
>> is
>>>> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
>>>> priorities.  That is different from a formal product from a public
>>>> corporation.  For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get
>> into
>>>> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player
>>>> Plugins and Runtimes.
>>>>>> And how can we help you with that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jeffry Houser
>>>>>> Technical Entrepreneur
>>>>>> 203-379-0773
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
>>>>>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> http://www.theflexshow.com
>>>>>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
>>>>>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
>>>> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
>>>> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
>>>> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
>>>> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
>>>>
>>
>>


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Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Jonathan Campos
In reply to this post by Gary Griswold-2
Sorry grant. I don't work at Google and am just an individual coder like
you.

Everyone has a voice and everyone has the ability to contribute. I just
feel that we should be discussing and developing code. That is the
discussion that will help move things along and enact positive change.

I'm not sure what you feel is stopping you from contributing. Anyone can
contribute. This is the benefit to open source. If you have a question
about how to contribute feel free to ask.
On Jun 27, 2012 8:50 AM, "Gary Griswold" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am the sole software developer of a small publisher and I do that as a
> volunteer.  It is not feasible that I would also contribute to the Flex
> project, but the author of this last 'rant' works at Google.  If Google is
> permitting you to work on Flex then the rest of us who use Flex are greatly
> indebted to you.
>
> But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should have
> no voice in the process?
>
> Gary
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:41 AM, Jonathan Campos wrote:
>
> > While I enjoy watching the banter this exact conversation has played out
> > many times before.
> >
> > So let me skip to the end.
> >
> > You, have an amazing idea to completely change Flex and make it super
> > awesome.
> >
> > We, are a community happy to help and develop.
> >
> > Rather than spending effort sending emails start coding. With code people
> > can see direction and join up and take action.
> >
> > You want a cross compiler?! Awesome! Start making it and others will
> > follow. I know of many side projects in the work all to help the
> community.
> > I have one of my own right now.
> >
> > The most helpful thing you can do is start writing code or making a plan
> of
> > attack that others can join in on. So let's get back to coding and make
> > something amazing.
> > On Jun 27, 2012 8:35 AM, "Desai, Ashish S" <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building cross
> >> compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime does
> and
> >> then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world would
> want
> >> to use.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Ashish
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Gary Griswold [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary
> >> Griswold
> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in
> >> mid 2012?
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I would like to second Brett's motion.  The best possible direction for
> >> Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices.  Some
> >> animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex
> >> developers would miss them.  And someone would need to develop the big
> >> components, like DataGrid and Charts.  I don't know how many people need
> >> Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features.  Possibly, some
> >> complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make
> the
> >> transition to JS.
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
> >>
> >>> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued
> >> relevance and an opportunity to grow.
> >>>
> >>> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated
> >> derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever
> Flash
> >> has been mentioned by a presenter.
> >>>
> >>> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser
> >> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that run
> the
> >> severs as well.  Opposition on two fronts.
> >>>
> >>> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits to
> >> do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
> >>>
> >>> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency
> and
> >> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript components
> and
> >> tooling.
> >>>
> >>> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
> >>>
> >>> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
> >>>
> >>> $0.02
> >>>
> >>> Brett
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> >>>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in
> >> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for
> large
> >> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the
> future
> >> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash
> >> Player Runtime.
> >>>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework from
> >> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
> >>>>
> >>>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
> >> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future
> of
> >> flex.
> >>>>
> >>>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route.  The Flex project
> is
> >> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
> >> priorities.  That is different from a formal product from a public
> >> corporation.  For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get
> into
> >> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash Player
> >> Plugins and Runtimes.
> >>>> And how can we help you with that?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Jeffry Houser
> >>>> Technical Entrepreneur
> >>>> 203-379-0773
> >>>> --
> >>>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> >>>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> >>>> --
> >>>> http://www.theflexshow.com
> >>>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> >>>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> >>>> --
> >>>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
> >>>>
> >>
> >> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> >> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> >> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> >> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> >> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
> >>
>
>
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Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Jeffry Houser
In reply to this post by Gary Griswold-2
On 6/27/2012 11:49 AM, Gary Griswold wrote:
> But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should have no voice in the process?

  I didn't read anything on the list that made me suggest someone said
that.  However, I am willing to say that.  If you want a vote in what
goes into the Flex SDK:

1) Contribute
2) Pay someone to contribute for you.

--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust


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Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Gary Griswold-2
OK, I will unsubscribe.  My plan is to continue development in Flex with my current project over the next 12 months, and then see the status of things and decide what to do.  It is much more feasible for me to buy Sencha's Flex to JS translator than it is to spend time doing source code development.

Gary


On Jun 27, 2012, at 12:37 PM, Jeffry Houser wrote:

> On 6/27/2012 11:49 AM, Gary Griswold wrote:
>> But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should have no voice in the process?
>
> I didn't read anything on the list that made me suggest someone said that.  However, I am willing to say that.  If you want a vote in what goes into the Flex SDK:
>
> 1) Contribute
> 2) Pay someone to contribute for you.
>
> --
> Jeffry Houser
> Technical Entrepreneur
> 203-379-0773
> --
> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> --
> http://www.theflexshow.com
> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> --
> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>


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Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid 2012?

Jeff Fairley
In reply to this post by Jonathan Campos
Skipping to the end...

I'm very excited about Flex moving to Apache. Though I don't have time to
contribute, myself, I know there are many great coders out there with some
great components. For instance, my company has been using some of Tink's
components for a while now. The ones I've used are solid, and I'm thrilled
that such good components from him and others will be able to get into the
SDK.

In addition, though I'm not sure how much work is going into it, I'm happy
to see that at least a few people have interest in getting the SDK into a
maven repo (hopefully into Maven Central). That's a big deal for our
projects, since all of our builds come from with FlexMojos. Adobe was
clearly not interested in Maven, so I have hope now with Apache in control.

Jeff Fairley



On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Jonathan Campos <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Sorry grant. I don't work at Google and am just an individual coder like
> you.
>
> Everyone has a voice and everyone has the ability to contribute. I just
> feel that we should be discussing and developing code. That is the
> discussion that will help move things along and enact positive change.
>
> I'm not sure what you feel is stopping you from contributing. Anyone can
> contribute. This is the benefit to open source. If you have a question
> about how to contribute feel free to ask.
> On Jun 27, 2012 8:50 AM, "Gary Griswold" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am the sole software developer of a small publisher and I do that as a
> > volunteer.  It is not feasible that I would also contribute to the Flex
> > project, but the author of this last 'rant' works at Google.  If Google
> is
> > permitting you to work on Flex then the rest of us who use Flex are
> greatly
> > indebted to you.
> >
> > But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should
> have
> > no voice in the process?
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> > On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:41 AM, Jonathan Campos wrote:
> >
> > > While I enjoy watching the banter this exact conversation has played
> out
> > > many times before.
> > >
> > > So let me skip to the end.
> > >
> > > You, have an amazing idea to completely change Flex and make it super
> > > awesome.
> > >
> > > We, are a community happy to help and develop.
> > >
> > > Rather than spending effort sending emails start coding. With code
> people
> > > can see direction and join up and take action.
> > >
> > > You want a cross compiler?! Awesome! Start making it and others will
> > > follow. I know of many side projects in the work all to help the
> > community.
> > > I have one of my own right now.
> > >
> > > The most helpful thing you can do is start writing code or making a
> plan
> > of
> > > attack that others can join in on. So let's get back to coding and make
> > > something amazing.
> > > On Jun 27, 2012 8:35 AM, "Desai, Ashish S" <
> [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building cross
> > >> compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime
> does
> > and
> > >> then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world would
> > want
> > >> to use.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Ashish
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Gary Griswold [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Gary
> > >> Griswold
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
> > >> To: [hidden email]
> > >> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash
> in
> > >> mid 2012?
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> I would like to second Brett's motion.  The best possible direction
> for
> > >> Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices.  Some
> > >> animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex
> > >> developers would miss them.  And someone would need to develop the big
> > >> components, like DataGrid and Charts.  I don't know how many people
> need
> > >> Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features.  Possibly,
> some
> > >> complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to make
> > the
> > >> transition to JS.
> > >>
> > >> Gary
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued
> > >> relevance and an opportunity to grow.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated
> > >> derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk whenever
> > Flash
> > >> has been mentioned by a presenter.
> > >>>
> > >>> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the browser
> > >> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that
> run
> > the
> > >> severs as well.  Opposition on two fronts.
> > >>>
> > >>> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together toolkits
> to
> > >> do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut off.
> > >>>
> > >>> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the consistency
> > and
> > >> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript
> components
> > and
> > >> tooling.
> > >>>
> > >>> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
> > >>>
> > >>> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
> > >>>
> > >>> $0.02
> > >>>
> > >>> Brett
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>
> > >>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
> > >>>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing in
> > >> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that for
> > large
> > >> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the
> > future
> > >> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the Flash
> > >> Player Runtime.
> > >>>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework
> from
> > >> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
> > >> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown future
> > of
> > >> flex.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route.  The Flex project
> > is
> > >> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
> > >> priorities.  That is different from a formal product from a public
> > >> corporation.  For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to get
> > into
> > >> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash
> Player
> > >> Plugins and Runtimes.
> > >>>> And how can we help you with that?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Jeffry Houser
> > >>>> Technical Entrepreneur
> > >>>> 203-379-0773
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> http://www.flextras.com?c=104
> > >>>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> http://www.theflexshow.com
> > >>>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
> > >>>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
> > >>>>
> > >>
> > >> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
> > >> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
> > >> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
> > >> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
> > >> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
> > >>
> >
> >
>
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