GUI IDE need.

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GUI IDE need.

Paul Stearns
Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger modules has 1,390 lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29 enterable "fields" another tab has over 50 enterable fields.

Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the type of data entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best without using a GUI editor. If you are designing traditional web applications where everything is stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do that without a GUI IDE. If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be productive.

My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be found here, be sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as expected, let me know, no data is stored)

http://flex.yozyo.net/TestModule/bin-release/Main.html?test=123

Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with x/y placement of items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588

----------------------------------------
From: Carlos Rovira <[hidden email]>
Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
Hi Paul,

many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that reason I
started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash and AMF in
early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC (someone
remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just needed. That was
very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that time.

Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode in Flash and
Royale is the current Flex. So it's clear that you don't need to go very
"low level", but if you needed, you can do it! (and that's good). But
Royale should allow you to develop without the need to go that route. and
just use good proven patterns like Flex did. We're working towards
that...and I think we're already got it. :)

About GUI IDE, although I think is something very cool to have something
like that, I abandoned that kind of tools many years ago. Maybe in the
future I could be working in something like that, just for pleasure, but
for now there's still many work to do in Royale in things more needed.
Maybe others could drive that effort... But I really think the current
Royale coding is very straight forward to do. As well examples like Tour De
Jewel has a lot of code to see how things should be used and learn from it
a lot of good practices.

El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 22:48, Paul Stearns ()
escribió:

> What attracted me to Flex initially was that it ran in its own
> environment, completely separate from the html, web browser and their
> multitude of DOMs. I used to write apps in ASP/HTML, and every other week a
> new version of a browser would break something.
>
> For the type of applications I write & support, having a GUI IDE, a
> defined language (like as3 & mxml) and an engine which which provides
> consistent results across platforms are the most important features. At
> this point the weakness I see in Royale is there isn't a GUI IDE, and since
> it doesn't have its own engine, it relies on the vicissitudes of javascript
> and how the particular browser it is running in implements its DOM.
>
> This is why I shied away from .NET, and PHP in the past except for more
> traditional websites with a bit of user interaction. Javascript frameworks
> just hide the ugliness, they don't make it go away.
>
> Having said all of the above, I am taking a chance on Royale to see what
> the level of effort will be to convert to it.
>
> Paul R. Stearns
> Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
>
> 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> Suite 250
> Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
>
> Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> Fax: (305)623-4588
>
> ----------------------------------------
> From: Carlos Rovira
> Sent: 3/9/20 4:55 PM
> To: Paul Stearns
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> Hi Paul,
>
> I suppose you refer to Java Applets, hope other could give more info about
> this, but although you're in part right, I think Flash Player is more well
> integrated in Browsers and Applets never had the power of Flash. But it's
> ok, you can enable in browsers... anyway, we 're in 2020 and seems things
> will continue its course, so nothing we can do to revert that.
>
> I always be a great advocate of the Flash platform, but I found in Royale
> something better that what we had with Flash. IMHO, we have the best of
> both worlds. From Flex/Flash I wanted the "development productivity",
> languages (AS3, MXML), compiler, AMF, and many other things. From web I
> always liked things like CSS (that's far superior than what we had in Flex
> for sure), and the fact that we are not constraint to a plugin and a
> sandbox, so it's more easy to do things for the web.
>
> We have both combined now in Royale, and that's for me amazing. As we get
> components with clear API definitions, and access to latest browsers
> features, we are getting the same productivity that we had in Flex, and as
> well we are removing the complexity in Browsers where you need to test in
> each browsers or lost time solving browser compatibility problems. We
> finally can have things like IoC (Inversion of Control), DI (Dependency
> Injection), Metadata, MXML, Routing (Deep Linking), LocalStorage (like old
> Local SharedObject), just to name a few.
>
> But even more, since the bead/strand Arquitecture is really powerful, and
> Apps build with royale are more easy to build that even was in Royale. And
> the most important: Performance: The apps built with Royale has an
> outstanding performance. Apps migrated from Flex use to be many XX% faster
> in Royale.
>
> I must say, I'm very happy with what we're getting with Apache Royale :)
>
> Carlos
>
> El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:46, Paul Stearns ()
> escribió:
>
> > I am investing Royale, but haven't seen any results yet.
> >
> > I am showing my ignorance here, but, my confusion is, will Java still be
> > deployable via web browsers? If so, what is the difference between using
> a
> > web browser to deploy a Java app, and a Flash app?
> >
> > Why couldn't Adobe/Harmon changed Flash to use the methodology Flash uses
> > for deployment?
> >
> > Paul R. Stearns
> > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> >
> > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> > Suite 250
> > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> >
> > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> > Fax: (305)623-4588
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From*: Carlos Rovira
> > *Sent*: 3/9/20 3:31 PM
> > *To*: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
> > *Subject*: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > must say don't know what's the actual support of Adobe for Flash Player,
> > or if it will left to Harman as part of the AIR deal, maybe Andrew can
> give
> > some light on this. Since Flash will be just present on AIR, and not in
> any
> > other place, that could have sense. But that will mean more maintenance
> > effort and people needed by Harman.
> >
> > Anyway, donating to Apache has no sense at all, since Flash Player has
> > many licensed closed source parts that can't be open source, or at least
> > that's what they always says. But again...donating Flash Player and
> making
> > it OS, if it could be something doable at some point (let's go utopic ;),
> > does not change anything, since Browser vendors are closing plugin doors.
> > So even in that case, it continue to be a death end.
> >
> > I think Apache Royale is this days in a very good shape, and is better
> > each day... so I maybe people should give a try and consider it as an
> > option for the future.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:04, Paul Stearns ()
> > escribió:
> >
> >> Has Adobe stopped supporting it, and has not turned it over to Apache?
> >> Now that is just unconscionable.
> >>
> >> Paul R. Stearns
> >> Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> >>
> >> 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> >> Suite 250
> >> Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> >>
> >> Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> >> Fax: (305)623-4588
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------
> >> From: Carlos Rovira
> >> Sent: 3/9/20 1:28 PM
> >> To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
> >> Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >> Hi Paul,
> >>
> >> not bad idea, but don't know a browser that will support Flash, and the
> >> problem is Adobe is stopping supporting flash player as a plugin, so I'm
> >> afraid that's not possible.
> >>
> >> El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 17:40, Paul Stearns ()
> >> escribió:
> >>
> >> > Better yet, how about supporting a browser whose main feature is the
> >> > support of Flex?
> >> >
> >> > My applications are 99.9% flex. The main things I use the browser for
> is
> >> > application deployment, file upload/download and displaying PDF
> files..
> >> >
> >> > Paul R. Stearns
> >> > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> >> >
> >> > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> >> > Suite 250
> >> > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> >> >
> >> > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> >> > Fax: (305)623-4588
> >> >
> >> > ----------------------------------------
> >> > From: Carlos Rovira
> >> > Sent: 3/9/20 10:09 AM
> >> > To: [hidden email]
> >> > Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >> > Hi Andrew,
> >> >
> >> > When Dec, 31th arrives, Flex will be out of browsers, so just allowed
> >> using
> >> > AIR. Maybe AIR could have an option to bundle Apache Flex with each
> >> version
> >> > that ensures all work right. I mean, in 2021, Apache Flex will not
> have
> >> > sense with AIR right? so why not to think in something that ease even
> >> more
> >> > AIR+Flex marriage? Of course a version without Flex should have sense
> >> too
> >> > for people that does not use Flex at all.
> >> >
> >> > Make that sense?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> >
> >> > Carlos
> >> >
> >> > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 14:45, Frost, Andrew ()
> >> > escribió:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi
> >> > >
> >> > > We'd be happy to add things like this geometry API change - but it's
> >> then
> >> > > going to be version-dependent so it would need to be compiled
> against
> >> the
> >> > > later AIR SDK and would only run on the later AIR runtime..
> >> > >
> >> > > I'm not sure whether there are other changes that would really
> impact
> >> the
> >> > > Flex SDK itself. So perhaps we can consider these on a case-by-case
> >> > basis.
> >> > >
> >> > > The one thing I keep coming back to though, is that it seems to be a
> >> very
> >> > > painful process for (a) people to download and start using a new AIR
> >> SDK,
> >> > > and (b) people who then have to combine a Flex SDK with an AIR SDK!
> >> So we
> >> > > should perhaps address this in the first instance (and from our QA
> >> folk,
> >> > > having a simple way to ensure you get back to a clean version of
> >> one/both
> >> > > of these SDKs would be good too!)
> >> > >
> >> > > Any other thoughts on missing features or things that would be
> useful,
> >> > > please send them in!
> >> > >
> >> > > thanks
> >> > >
> >> > > Andrew
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: Piotr Zarzycki
> >> > > Sent: 09 March 2020 13:01
> >> > > To: [hidden email]
> >> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi Andrew,
> >> > >
> >> > > This kind of situation may occur more often in the future if Air
> would
> >> > > have more and more features. Is there any plan to someone from your
> >> Team
> >> > > simply add missing stuff to Flex? Any thoughts on this approach?
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks,
> >> > > Piotr
> >> > >
> >> > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020, 1:49 PM Frost, Andrew
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Hi Olaf
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > I think it would be nice if any AIR updates would be compatible
> >> with
> >> > > > > the
> >> > > > latest Flex SDK
> >> > > > Yes completely agree, this was an error on our part to not
> consider
> >> > > > the fact that overrides of the APIs that we were changing would
> have
> >> > > > been affected. The changes were reverted, and we have
> re-implemented
> >> > > > the new functionality within additional APIs/methods so that
> >> existing
> >> > > > apps will now compile/run without any changes on the 33.1.1.63
> >> release.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > We definitely intend that there is still full compatibility
> between
> >> > > > Flex and any changes we make with AIR.. so thanks to leokan23 and
> >> Alex
> >> > > > for bringing this to our attention!
> >> > > >
> >> > > > thanks
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Andrew
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > From: Olaf Krueger
> >> > > > Sent: 06 March 2020 20:30
> >> > > > To: [hidden email]
> >> > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hi,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I didn't follow the entire discussion, but I'd like to mention
> that
> >> I
> >> > > > am not sure if we still have enough volunteers which are willing
> to
> >> > > > work on a new Flex release.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > That said, I think it would be nice if any AIR updates would be
> >> > > > compatible with the latest Flex SDK... as long as it's possible.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks,
> >> > > > Olaf
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Sent from:
> >> > > >
> >> https://clicktime.symantec.com/3T23VtMr4Dz6j6DqBbgaf5T7Vc?u=http%3A%2F
> >> > > > %2Fapache-flex-users.2333346.n4.nabble.com%2F
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Carlos Rovira
> >> > http://about.me/carlosrovira
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> Carlos Rovira
> >> http://about.me/carlosrovira
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Rovira
> > http://about.me/carlosrovira
> >
> >
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>
>
>

--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira


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Re: GUI IDE need.

Alex Harui-2
While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that wasn't possible with Flash Player.

IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the browser.

The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some button that will then update the MXML.

There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are available at this time.  The main one is that use of view states greatly complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well).  So one question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?

-Alex

On 3/9/20, 8:26 PM, "Paul Stearns" <[hidden email]> wrote:

    Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger modules has 1,390 lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29 enterable "fields" another tab has over 50 enterable fields.
   
    Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the type of data entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best without using a GUI editor. If you are designing traditional web applications where everything is stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do that without a GUI IDE. If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be productive.
   
    My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be found here, be sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as expected, let me know, no data is stored)
   
    https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.yozyo.net%2FTestModule%2Fbin-release%2FMain.html%3Ftest%3D123&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&amp;sdata=iA9Av%2FhjDmDmMqdRVgsb2wb33Eqq8G7VVpbQ1cQDJ%2Bg%3D&amp;reserved=0 
   
    Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with x/y placement of items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.
   
    Paul R. Stearns
    Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
   
    15280 NW 79th Ct.
    Suite 250
    Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
   
    Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
    Fax: (305)623-4588
   
    ----------------------------------------
    From: Carlos Rovira <[hidden email]>
    Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
    To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns <[hidden email]>
    Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
    Hi Paul,
   
    many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that reason I
    started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash and AMF in
    early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC (someone
    remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just needed. That was
    very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that time.
   
    Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode in Flash and
    Royale is the current Flex. So it's clear that you don't need to go very
    "low level", but if you needed, you can do it! (and that's good). But
    Royale should allow you to develop without the need to go that route. and
    just use good proven patterns like Flex did. We're working towards
    that...and I think we're already got it. :)
   
    About GUI IDE, although I think is something very cool to have something
    like that, I abandoned that kind of tools many years ago. Maybe in the
    future I could be working in something like that, just for pleasure, but
    for now there's still many work to do in Royale in things more needed.
    Maybe others could drive that effort... But I really think the current
    Royale coding is very straight forward to do. As well examples like Tour De
    Jewel has a lot of code to see how things should be used and learn from it
    a lot of good practices.
   
    El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 22:48, Paul Stearns ()
    escribió:
   
    > What attracted me to Flex initially was that it ran in its own
    > environment, completely separate from the html, web browser and their
    > multitude of DOMs. I used to write apps in ASP/HTML, and every other week a
    > new version of a browser would break something.
    >
    > For the type of applications I write & support, having a GUI IDE, a
    > defined language (like as3 & mxml) and an engine which which provides
    > consistent results across platforms are the most important features. At
    > this point the weakness I see in Royale is there isn't a GUI IDE, and since
    > it doesn't have its own engine, it relies on the vicissitudes of javascript
    > and how the particular browser it is running in implements its DOM.
    >
    > This is why I shied away from .NET, and PHP in the past except for more
    > traditional websites with a bit of user interaction. Javascript frameworks
    > just hide the ugliness, they don't make it go away.
    >
    > Having said all of the above, I am taking a chance on Royale to see what
    > the level of effort will be to convert to it.
    >
    > Paul R. Stearns
    > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
    >
    > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
    > Suite 250
    > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
    >
    > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
    > Fax: (305)623-4588
    >
    > ----------------------------------------
    > From: Carlos Rovira
    > Sent: 3/9/20 4:55 PM
    > To: Paul Stearns
    > Cc: [hidden email]
    > Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
    > Hi Paul,
    >
    > I suppose you refer to Java Applets, hope other could give more info about
    > this, but although you're in part right, I think Flash Player is more well
    > integrated in Browsers and Applets never had the power of Flash. But it's
    > ok, you can enable in browsers... anyway, we 're in 2020 and seems things
    > will continue its course, so nothing we can do to revert that.
    >
    > I always be a great advocate of the Flash platform, but I found in Royale
    > something better that what we had with Flash. IMHO, we have the best of
    > both worlds. From Flex/Flash I wanted the "development productivity",
    > languages (AS3, MXML), compiler, AMF, and many other things. From web I
    > always liked things like CSS (that's far superior than what we had in Flex
    > for sure), and the fact that we are not constraint to a plugin and a
    > sandbox, so it's more easy to do things for the web.
    >
    > We have both combined now in Royale, and that's for me amazing. As we get
    > components with clear API definitions, and access to latest browsers
    > features, we are getting the same productivity that we had in Flex, and as
    > well we are removing the complexity in Browsers where you need to test in
    > each browsers or lost time solving browser compatibility problems. We
    > finally can have things like IoC (Inversion of Control), DI (Dependency
    > Injection), Metadata, MXML, Routing (Deep Linking), LocalStorage (like old
    > Local SharedObject), just to name a few.
    >
    > But even more, since the bead/strand Arquitecture is really powerful, and
    > Apps build with royale are more easy to build that even was in Royale. And
    > the most important: Performance: The apps built with Royale has an
    > outstanding performance. Apps migrated from Flex use to be many XX% faster
    > in Royale.
    >
    > I must say, I'm very happy with what we're getting with Apache Royale :)
    >
    > Carlos
    >
    > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:46, Paul Stearns ()
    > escribió:
    >
    > > I am investing Royale, but haven't seen any results yet.
    > >
    > > I am showing my ignorance here, but, my confusion is, will Java still be
    > > deployable via web browsers? If so, what is the difference between using
    > a
    > > web browser to deploy a Java app, and a Flash app?
    > >
    > > Why couldn't Adobe/Harmon changed Flash to use the methodology Flash uses
    > > for deployment?
    > >
    > > Paul R. Stearns
    > > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
    > >
    > > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
    > > Suite 250
    > > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
    > >
    > > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
    > > Fax: (305)623-4588
    > >
    > > ------------------------------
    > > *From*: Carlos Rovira
    > > *Sent*: 3/9/20 3:31 PM
    > > *To*: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
    > > *Subject*: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
    > > Hi Paul,
    > >
    > > must say don't know what's the actual support of Adobe for Flash Player,
    > > or if it will left to Harman as part of the AIR deal, maybe Andrew can
    > give
    > > some light on this. Since Flash will be just present on AIR, and not in
    > any
    > > other place, that could have sense. But that will mean more maintenance
    > > effort and people needed by Harman.
    > >
    > > Anyway, donating to Apache has no sense at all, since Flash Player has
    > > many licensed closed source parts that can't be open source, or at least
    > > that's what they always says. But again...donating Flash Player and
    > making
    > > it OS, if it could be something doable at some point (let's go utopic ;),
    > > does not change anything, since Browser vendors are closing plugin doors.
    > > So even in that case, it continue to be a death end.
    > >
    > > I think Apache Royale is this days in a very good shape, and is better
    > > each day... so I maybe people should give a try and consider it as an
    > > option for the future.
    > >
    > > Thanks
    > >
    > > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:04, Paul Stearns ()
    > > escribió:
    > >
    > >> Has Adobe stopped supporting it, and has not turned it over to Apache?
    > >> Now that is just unconscionable.
    > >>
    > >> Paul R. Stearns
    > >> Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
    > >>
    > >> 15280 NW 79th Ct.
    > >> Suite 250
    > >> Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
    > >>
    > >> Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
    > >> Fax: (305)623-4588
    > >>
    > >> ----------------------------------------
    > >> From: Carlos Rovira
    > >> Sent: 3/9/20 1:28 PM
    > >> To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
    > >> Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
    > >> Hi Paul,
    > >>
    > >> not bad idea, but don't know a browser that will support Flash, and the
    > >> problem is Adobe is stopping supporting flash player as a plugin, so I'm
    > >> afraid that's not possible.
    > >>
    > >> El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 17:40, Paul Stearns ()
    > >> escribió:
    > >>
    > >> > Better yet, how about supporting a browser whose main feature is the
    > >> > support of Flex?
    > >> >
    > >> > My applications are 99.9% flex. The main things I use the browser for
    > is
    > >> > application deployment, file upload/download and displaying PDF
    > files..
    > >> >
    > >> > Paul R. Stearns
    > >> > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
    > >> >
    > >> > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
    > >> > Suite 250
    > >> > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
    > >> >
    > >> > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
    > >> > Fax: (305)623-4588
    > >> >
    > >> > ----------------------------------------
    > >> > From: Carlos Rovira
    > >> > Sent: 3/9/20 10:09 AM
    > >> > To: [hidden email]
    > >> > Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
    > >> > Hi Andrew,
    > >> >
    > >> > When Dec, 31th arrives, Flex will be out of browsers, so just allowed
    > >> using
    > >> > AIR. Maybe AIR could have an option to bundle Apache Flex with each
    > >> version
    > >> > that ensures all work right. I mean, in 2021, Apache Flex will not
    > have
    > >> > sense with AIR right? so why not to think in something that ease even
    > >> more
    > >> > AIR+Flex marriage? Of course a version without Flex should have sense
    > >> too
    > >> > for people that does not use Flex at all.
    > >> >
    > >> > Make that sense?
    > >> >
    > >> > Thanks
    > >> >
    > >> > Carlos
    > >> >
    > >> > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 14:45, Frost, Andrew ()
    > >> > escribió:
    > >> >
    > >> > > Hi
    > >> > >
    > >> > > We'd be happy to add things like this geometry API change - but it's
    > >> then
    > >> > > going to be version-dependent so it would need to be compiled
    > against
    > >> the
    > >> > > later AIR SDK and would only run on the later AIR runtime..
    > >> > >
    > >> > > I'm not sure whether there are other changes that would really
    > impact
    > >> the
    > >> > > Flex SDK itself. So perhaps we can consider these on a case-by-case
    > >> > basis.
    > >> > >
    > >> > > The one thing I keep coming back to though, is that it seems to be a
    > >> very
    > >> > > painful process for (a) people to download and start using a new AIR
    > >> SDK,
    > >> > > and (b) people who then have to combine a Flex SDK with an AIR SDK!
    > >> So we
    > >> > > should perhaps address this in the first instance (and from our QA
    > >> folk,
    > >> > > having a simple way to ensure you get back to a clean version of
    > >> one/both
    > >> > > of these SDKs would be good too!)
    > >> > >
    > >> > > Any other thoughts on missing features or things that would be
    > useful,
    > >> > > please send them in!
    > >> > >
    > >> > > thanks
    > >> > >
    > >> > > Andrew
    > >> > >
    > >> > >
    > >> > > -----Original Message-----
    > >> > > From: Piotr Zarzycki
    > >> > > Sent: 09 March 2020 13:01
    > >> > > To: [hidden email]
    > >> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
    > >> > >
    > >> > > Hi Andrew,
    > >> > >
    > >> > > This kind of situation may occur more often in the future if Air
    > would
    > >> > > have more and more features. Is there any plan to someone from your
    > >> Team
    > >> > > simply add missing stuff to Flex? Any thoughts on this approach?
    > >> > >
    > >> > > Thanks,
    > >> > > Piotr
    > >> > >
    > >> > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020, 1:49 PM Frost, Andrew
    > >> > > wrote:
    > >> > >
    > >> > > > Hi Olaf
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > > > I think it would be nice if any AIR updates would be compatible
    > >> with
    > >> > > > > the
    > >> > > > latest Flex SDK
    > >> > > > Yes completely agree, this was an error on our part to not
    > consider
    > >> > > > the fact that overrides of the APIs that we were changing would
    > have
    > >> > > > been affected. The changes were reverted, and we have
    > re-implemented
    > >> > > > the new functionality within additional APIs/methods so that
    > >> existing
    > >> > > > apps will now compile/run without any changes on the 33.1.1.63
    > >> release.
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > > We definitely intend that there is still full compatibility
    > between
    > >> > > > Flex and any changes we make with AIR.. so thanks to leokan23 and
    > >> Alex
    > >> > > > for bringing this to our attention!
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > > thanks
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > > Andrew
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > > -----Original Message-----
    > >> > > > From: Olaf Krueger
    > >> > > > Sent: 06 March 2020 20:30
    > >> > > > To: [hidden email]
    > >> > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > > Hi,
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > > I didn't follow the entire discussion, but I'd like to mention
    > that
    > >> I
    > >> > > > am not sure if we still have enough volunteers which are willing
    > to
    > >> > > > work on a new Flex release.
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > > That said, I think it would be nice if any AIR updates would be
    > >> > > > compatible with the latest Flex SDK... as long as it's possible.
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > > Thanks,
    > >> > > > Olaf
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > > --
    > >> > > > Sent from:
    > >> > > >
    > >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3T23VtMr4Dz6j6DqBbgaf5T7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&amp;sdata=VNLYBUe1LJaLdwUrgqOC6YZsYufcwhlivkiljxQTyE8%3D&amp;reserved=0
    > >> > > > %2Fapache-flex-users.2333346.n4.nabble.com%2F
    > >> > > >
    > >> > >
    > >> >
    > >> > --
    > >> > Carlos Rovira
    > >> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&amp;sdata=M2iILzk8UGcWyJ6WHBJPaFpVk%2B7f%2Bg2V2O4dD3RHtTc%3D&amp;reserved=0
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >> --
    > >> Carlos Rovira
    > >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >
    > > --
    > > Carlos Rovira
    > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
    > >
    > >
    >
    > --
    > Carlos Rovira
    > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
    >
    >
    >
   
    --
    Carlos Rovira
    https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
   
   
   

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Re: GUI IDE need.

Carlos Rovira-2
Hi Paul,

the example you posted is easy to do nowadays with current Royale in
development branch. You can take a try with Jewel or emulation components.
You'll be surprised of how far Royale is this days :).

Best

Carlos



El mar., 10 mar. 2020 a las 5:28, Alex Harui (<[hidden email]>)
escribió:

> While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there
> is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that
> wasn't possible with Flash Player.
>
> IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit
> the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the
> browser.
>
> The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the
> browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some
> button that will then update the MXML.
>
> There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are
> available at this time.  The main one is that use of view states greatly
> complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well).  So one
> question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
>
> -Alex
>
> On 3/9/20, 8:26 PM, "Paul Stearns" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>     Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger modules has
> 1,390 lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29 enterable
> "fields" another tab has over 50 enterable fields.
>
>     Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the type of
> data entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best without
> using a GUI editor. If you are designing traditional web applications where
> everything is stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do that
> without a GUI IDE. If however you want to design highly usable business
> applications deployed to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need
> GUI tools to be productive.
>
>     My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be found
> here, be sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as expected,
> let me know, no data is stored)
>
>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.yozyo.net%2FTestModule%2Fbin-release%2FMain.html%3Ftest%3D123&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&amp;sdata=iA9Av%2FhjDmDmMqdRVgsb2wb33Eqq8G7VVpbQ1cQDJ%2Bg%3D&amp;reserved=0
>
>     Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with x/y
> placement of items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.
>
>     Paul R. Stearns
>     Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
>
>     15280 NW 79th Ct.
>     Suite 250
>     Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
>
>     Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
>     Fax: (305)623-4588
>
>     ----------------------------------------
>     From: Carlos Rovira <[hidden email]>
>     Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
>     To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns <[hidden email]>
>     Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
>     Hi Paul,
>
>     many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that reason I
>     started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash and AMF in
>     early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC (someone
>     remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just needed. That
> was
>     very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that time.
>
>     Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode in Flash
> and
>     Royale is the current Flex. So it's clear that you don't need to go
> very
>     "low level", but if you needed, you can do it! (and that's good). But
>     Royale should allow you to develop without the need to go that route.
> and
>     just use good proven patterns like Flex did. We're working towards
>     that...and I think we're already got it. :)
>
>     About GUI IDE, although I think is something very cool to have
> something
>     like that, I abandoned that kind of tools many years ago. Maybe in the
>     future I could be working in something like that, just for pleasure,
> but
>     for now there's still many work to do in Royale in things more needed.
>     Maybe others could drive that effort... But I really think the current
>     Royale coding is very straight forward to do. As well examples like
> Tour De
>     Jewel has a lot of code to see how things should be used and learn
> from it
>     a lot of good practices.
>
>     El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 22:48, Paul Stearns ()
>     escribió:
>
>     > What attracted me to Flex initially was that it ran in its own
>     > environment, completely separate from the html, web browser and their
>     > multitude of DOMs. I used to write apps in ASP/HTML, and every other
> week a
>     > new version of a browser would break something.
>     >
>     > For the type of applications I write & support, having a GUI IDE, a
>     > defined language (like as3 & mxml) and an engine which which provides
>     > consistent results across platforms are the most important features.
> At
>     > this point the weakness I see in Royale is there isn't a GUI IDE,
> and since
>     > it doesn't have its own engine, it relies on the vicissitudes of
> javascript
>     > and how the particular browser it is running in implements its DOM.
>     >
>     > This is why I shied away from .NET, and PHP in the past except for
> more
>     > traditional websites with a bit of user interaction. Javascript
> frameworks
>     > just hide the ugliness, they don't make it go away.
>     >
>     > Having said all of the above, I am taking a chance on Royale to see
> what
>     > the level of effort will be to convert to it.
>     >
>     > Paul R. Stearns
>     > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
>     >
>     > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
>     > Suite 250
>     > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
>     >
>     > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
>     > Fax: (305)623-4588
>     >
>     > ----------------------------------------
>     > From: Carlos Rovira
>     > Sent: 3/9/20 4:55 PM
>     > To: Paul Stearns
>     > Cc: [hidden email]
>     > Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
>     > Hi Paul,
>     >
>     > I suppose you refer to Java Applets, hope other could give more info
> about
>     > this, but although you're in part right, I think Flash Player is
> more well
>     > integrated in Browsers and Applets never had the power of Flash. But
> it's
>     > ok, you can enable in browsers... anyway, we 're in 2020 and seems
> things
>     > will continue its course, so nothing we can do to revert that.
>     >
>     > I always be a great advocate of the Flash platform, but I found in
> Royale
>     > something better that what we had with Flash. IMHO, we have the best
> of
>     > both worlds. From Flex/Flash I wanted the "development productivity",
>     > languages (AS3, MXML), compiler, AMF, and many other things. From
> web I
>     > always liked things like CSS (that's far superior than what we had
> in Flex
>     > for sure), and the fact that we are not constraint to a plugin and a
>     > sandbox, so it's more easy to do things for the web.
>     >
>     > We have both combined now in Royale, and that's for me amazing. As
> we get
>     > components with clear API definitions, and access to latest browsers
>     > features, we are getting the same productivity that we had in Flex,
> and as
>     > well we are removing the complexity in Browsers where you need to
> test in
>     > each browsers or lost time solving browser compatibility problems. We
>     > finally can have things like IoC (Inversion of Control), DI
> (Dependency
>     > Injection), Metadata, MXML, Routing (Deep Linking), LocalStorage
> (like old
>     > Local SharedObject), just to name a few.
>     >
>     > But even more, since the bead/strand Arquitecture is really
> powerful, and
>     > Apps build with royale are more easy to build that even was in
> Royale. And
>     > the most important: Performance: The apps built with Royale has an
>     > outstanding performance. Apps migrated from Flex use to be many XX%
> faster
>     > in Royale.
>     >
>     > I must say, I'm very happy with what we're getting with Apache
> Royale :)
>     >
>     > Carlos
>     >
>     > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:46, Paul Stearns ()
>     > escribió:
>     >
>     > > I am investing Royale, but haven't seen any results yet.
>     > >
>     > > I am showing my ignorance here, but, my confusion is, will Java
> still be
>     > > deployable via web browsers? If so, what is the difference between
> using
>     > a
>     > > web browser to deploy a Java app, and a Flash app?
>     > >
>     > > Why couldn't Adobe/Harmon changed Flash to use the methodology
> Flash uses
>     > > for deployment?
>     > >
>     > > Paul R. Stearns
>     > > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
>     > >
>     > > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
>     > > Suite 250
>     > > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
>     > >
>     > > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
>     > > Fax: (305)623-4588
>     > >
>     > > ------------------------------
>     > > *From*: Carlos Rovira
>     > > *Sent*: 3/9/20 3:31 PM
>     > > *To*: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
>     > > *Subject*: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
>     > > Hi Paul,
>     > >
>     > > must say don't know what's the actual support of Adobe for Flash
> Player,
>     > > or if it will left to Harman as part of the AIR deal, maybe Andrew
> can
>     > give
>     > > some light on this. Since Flash will be just present on AIR, and
> not in
>     > any
>     > > other place, that could have sense. But that will mean more
> maintenance
>     > > effort and people needed by Harman.
>     > >
>     > > Anyway, donating to Apache has no sense at all, since Flash Player
> has
>     > > many licensed closed source parts that can't be open source, or at
> least
>     > > that's what they always says. But again...donating Flash Player and
>     > making
>     > > it OS, if it could be something doable at some point (let's go
> utopic ;),
>     > > does not change anything, since Browser vendors are closing plugin
> doors.
>     > > So even in that case, it continue to be a death end.
>     > >
>     > > I think Apache Royale is this days in a very good shape, and is
> better
>     > > each day... so I maybe people should give a try and consider it as
> an
>     > > option for the future.
>     > >
>     > > Thanks
>     > >
>     > > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:04, Paul Stearns ()
>     > > escribió:
>     > >
>     > >> Has Adobe stopped supporting it, and has not turned it over to
> Apache?
>     > >> Now that is just unconscionable.
>     > >>
>     > >> Paul R. Stearns
>     > >> Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
>     > >>
>     > >> 15280 NW 79th Ct.
>     > >> Suite 250
>     > >> Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
>     > >>
>     > >> Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
>     > >> Fax: (305)623-4588
>     > >>
>     > >> ----------------------------------------
>     > >> From: Carlos Rovira
>     > >> Sent: 3/9/20 1:28 PM
>     > >> To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
>     > >> Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
>     > >> Hi Paul,
>     > >>
>     > >> not bad idea, but don't know a browser that will support Flash,
> and the
>     > >> problem is Adobe is stopping supporting flash player as a plugin,
> so I'm
>     > >> afraid that's not possible.
>     > >>
>     > >> El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 17:40, Paul Stearns ()
>     > >> escribió:
>     > >>
>     > >> > Better yet, how about supporting a browser whose main feature
> is the
>     > >> > support of Flex?
>     > >> >
>     > >> > My applications are 99.9% flex. The main things I use the
> browser for
>     > is
>     > >> > application deployment, file upload/download and displaying PDF
>     > files..
>     > >> >
>     > >> > Paul R. Stearns
>     > >> > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
>     > >> >
>     > >> > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
>     > >> > Suite 250
>     > >> > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
>     > >> >
>     > >> > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
>     > >> > Fax: (305)623-4588
>     > >> >
>     > >> > ----------------------------------------
>     > >> > From: Carlos Rovira
>     > >> > Sent: 3/9/20 10:09 AM
>     > >> > To: [hidden email]
>     > >> > Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
>     > >> > Hi Andrew,
>     > >> >
>     > >> > When Dec, 31th arrives, Flex will be out of browsers, so just
> allowed
>     > >> using
>     > >> > AIR. Maybe AIR could have an option to bundle Apache Flex with
> each
>     > >> version
>     > >> > that ensures all work right. I mean, in 2021, Apache Flex will
> not
>     > have
>     > >> > sense with AIR right? so why not to think in something that
> ease even
>     > >> more
>     > >> > AIR+Flex marriage? Of course a version without Flex should have
> sense
>     > >> too
>     > >> > for people that does not use Flex at all.
>     > >> >
>     > >> > Make that sense?
>     > >> >
>     > >> > Thanks
>     > >> >
>     > >> > Carlos
>     > >> >
>     > >> > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 14:45, Frost, Andrew ()
>     > >> > escribió:
>     > >> >
>     > >> > > Hi
>     > >> > >
>     > >> > > We'd be happy to add things like this geometry API change -
> but it's
>     > >> then
>     > >> > > going to be version-dependent so it would need to be compiled
>     > against
>     > >> the
>     > >> > > later AIR SDK and would only run on the later AIR runtime..
>     > >> > >
>     > >> > > I'm not sure whether there are other changes that would really
>     > impact
>     > >> the
>     > >> > > Flex SDK itself. So perhaps we can consider these on a
> case-by-case
>     > >> > basis.
>     > >> > >
>     > >> > > The one thing I keep coming back to though, is that it seems
> to be a
>     > >> very
>     > >> > > painful process for (a) people to download and start using a
> new AIR
>     > >> SDK,
>     > >> > > and (b) people who then have to combine a Flex SDK with an
> AIR SDK!
>     > >> So we
>     > >> > > should perhaps address this in the first instance (and from
> our QA
>     > >> folk,
>     > >> > > having a simple way to ensure you get back to a clean version
> of
>     > >> one/both
>     > >> > > of these SDKs would be good too!)
>     > >> > >
>     > >> > > Any other thoughts on missing features or things that would be
>     > useful,
>     > >> > > please send them in!
>     > >> > >
>     > >> > > thanks
>     > >> > >
>     > >> > > Andrew
>     > >> > >
>     > >> > >
>     > >> > > -----Original Message-----
>     > >> > > From: Piotr Zarzycki
>     > >> > > Sent: 09 March 2020 13:01
>     > >> > > To: [hidden email]
>     > >> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
>     > >> > >
>     > >> > > Hi Andrew,
>     > >> > >
>     > >> > > This kind of situation may occur more often in the future if
> Air
>     > would
>     > >> > > have more and more features. Is there any plan to someone
> from your
>     > >> Team
>     > >> > > simply add missing stuff to Flex? Any thoughts on this
> approach?
>     > >> > >
>     > >> > > Thanks,
>     > >> > > Piotr
>     > >> > >
>     > >> > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020, 1:49 PM Frost, Andrew
>     > >> > > wrote:
>     > >> > >
>     > >> > > > Hi Olaf
>     > >> > > >
>     > >> > > > > I think it would be nice if any AIR updates would be
> compatible
>     > >> with
>     > >> > > > > the
>     > >> > > > latest Flex SDK
>     > >> > > > Yes completely agree, this was an error on our part to not
>     > consider
>     > >> > > > the fact that overrides of the APIs that we were changing
> would
>     > have
>     > >> > > > been affected. The changes were reverted, and we have
>     > re-implemented
>     > >> > > > the new functionality within additional APIs/methods so that
>     > >> existing
>     > >> > > > apps will now compile/run without any changes on the
> 33.1.1.63
>     > >> release.
>     > >> > > >
>     > >> > > > We definitely intend that there is still full compatibility
>     > between
>     > >> > > > Flex and any changes we make with AIR.. so thanks to
> leokan23 and
>     > >> Alex
>     > >> > > > for bringing this to our attention!
>     > >> > > >
>     > >> > > > thanks
>     > >> > > >
>     > >> > > > Andrew
>     > >> > > >
>     > >> > > >
>     > >> > > > -----Original Message-----
>     > >> > > > From: Olaf Krueger
>     > >> > > > Sent: 06 March 2020 20:30
>     > >> > > > To: [hidden email]
>     > >> > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
>     > >> > > >
>     > >> > > > Hi,
>     > >> > > >
>     > >> > > > I didn't follow the entire discussion, but I'd like to
> mention
>     > that
>     > >> I
>     > >> > > > am not sure if we still have enough volunteers which are
> willing
>     > to
>     > >> > > > work on a new Flex release.
>     > >> > > >
>     > >> > > > That said, I think it would be nice if any AIR updates
> would be
>     > >> > > > compatible with the latest Flex SDK... as long as it's
> possible.
>     > >> > > >
>     > >> > > > Thanks,
>     > >> > > > Olaf
>     > >> > > >
>     > >> > > >
>     > >> > > >
>     > >> > > > --
>     > >> > > > Sent from:
>     > >> > > >
>     > >>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3T23VtMr4Dz6j6DqBbgaf5T7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&amp;sdata=VNLYBUe1LJaLdwUrgqOC6YZsYufcwhlivkiljxQTyE8%3D&amp;reserved=0
>     > >> > > > %2Fapache-flex-users.2333346.n4.nabble.com%2F
>     > >> > > >
>     > >> > >
>     > >> >
>     > >> > --
>     > >> > Carlos Rovira
>     > >> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&amp;sdata=M2iILzk8UGcWyJ6WHBJPaFpVk%2B7f%2Bg2V2O4dD3RHtTc%3D&amp;reserved=0
>     > >> >
>     > >> >
>     > >> >
>     > >>
>     > >> --
>     > >> Carlos Rovira
>     > >>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
>     > >>
>     > >>
>     > >>
>     > >
>     > > --
>     > > Carlos Rovira
>     > >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
>     > >
>     > >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Carlos Rovira
>     >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
>     >
>     >
>     >
>
>     --
>     Carlos Rovira
>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
>
>
>
>
>

--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira
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Re: GUI IDE need.

piotrz
Hi Guys,

We have plan to add simple GUI IDE to Moonshine which outputs Royale Jewel
type of applications. Be patience and observer Moonshine IDE on GitHub. ;)

Thanks,
Piotr

wt., 10 mar 2020 o 11:05 Carlos Rovira <[hidden email]> napisał(a):

> Hi Paul,
>
> the example you posted is easy to do nowadays with current Royale in
> development branch. You can take a try with Jewel or emulation components.
> You'll be surprised of how far Royale is this days :).
>
> Best
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
> El mar., 10 mar. 2020 a las 5:28, Alex Harui (<[hidden email]>)
> escribió:
>
> > While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there
> > is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that
> > wasn't possible with Flash Player.
> >
> > IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit
> > the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the
> > browser.
> >
> > The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the
> > browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some
> > button that will then update the MXML.
> >
> > There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are
> > available at this time.  The main one is that use of view states greatly
> > complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well).  So one
> > question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
> >
> > -Alex
> >
> > On 3/9/20, 8:26 PM, "Paul Stearns" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >     Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger modules
> has
> > 1,390 lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29 enterable
> > "fields" another tab has over 50 enterable fields.
> >
> >     Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the type of
> > data entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best without
> > using a GUI editor. If you are designing traditional web applications
> where
> > everything is stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do
> that
> > without a GUI IDE. If however you want to design highly usable business
> > applications deployed to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need
> > GUI tools to be productive.
> >
> >     My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be found
> > here, be sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as
> expected,
> > let me know, no data is stored)
> >
> >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.yozyo.net%2FTestModule%2Fbin-release%2FMain.html%3Ftest%3D123&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&amp;sdata=iA9Av%2FhjDmDmMqdRVgsb2wb33Eqq8G7VVpbQ1cQDJ%2Bg%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >
> >     Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with x/y
> > placement of items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.
> >
> >     Paul R. Stearns
> >     Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> >
> >     15280 NW 79th Ct.
> >     Suite 250
> >     Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> >
> >     Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> >     Fax: (305)623-4588
> >
> >     ----------------------------------------
> >     From: Carlos Rovira <[hidden email]>
> >     Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
> >     To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns <[hidden email]>
> >     Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >     Hi Paul,
> >
> >     many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that reason I
> >     started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash and AMF
> in
> >     early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC (someone
> >     remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just needed. That
> > was
> >     very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that time.
> >
> >     Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode in
> Flash
> > and
> >     Royale is the current Flex. So it's clear that you don't need to go
> > very
> >     "low level", but if you needed, you can do it! (and that's good). But
> >     Royale should allow you to develop without the need to go that route.
> > and
> >     just use good proven patterns like Flex did. We're working towards
> >     that...and I think we're already got it. :)
> >
> >     About GUI IDE, although I think is something very cool to have
> > something
> >     like that, I abandoned that kind of tools many years ago. Maybe in
> the
> >     future I could be working in something like that, just for pleasure,
> > but
> >     for now there's still many work to do in Royale in things more
> needed.
> >     Maybe others could drive that effort... But I really think the
> current
> >     Royale coding is very straight forward to do. As well examples like
> > Tour De
> >     Jewel has a lot of code to see how things should be used and learn
> > from it
> >     a lot of good practices.
> >
> >     El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 22:48, Paul Stearns ()
> >     escribió:
> >
> >     > What attracted me to Flex initially was that it ran in its own
> >     > environment, completely separate from the html, web browser and
> their
> >     > multitude of DOMs. I used to write apps in ASP/HTML, and every
> other
> > week a
> >     > new version of a browser would break something.
> >     >
> >     > For the type of applications I write & support, having a GUI IDE, a
> >     > defined language (like as3 & mxml) and an engine which which
> provides
> >     > consistent results across platforms are the most important
> features.
> > At
> >     > this point the weakness I see in Royale is there isn't a GUI IDE,
> > and since
> >     > it doesn't have its own engine, it relies on the vicissitudes of
> > javascript
> >     > and how the particular browser it is running in implements its DOM.
> >     >
> >     > This is why I shied away from .NET, and PHP in the past except for
> > more
> >     > traditional websites with a bit of user interaction. Javascript
> > frameworks
> >     > just hide the ugliness, they don't make it go away.
> >     >
> >     > Having said all of the above, I am taking a chance on Royale to see
> > what
> >     > the level of effort will be to convert to it.
> >     >
> >     > Paul R. Stearns
> >     > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> >     >
> >     > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> >     > Suite 250
> >     > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> >     >
> >     > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> >     > Fax: (305)623-4588
> >     >
> >     > ----------------------------------------
> >     > From: Carlos Rovira
> >     > Sent: 3/9/20 4:55 PM
> >     > To: Paul Stearns
> >     > Cc: [hidden email]
> >     > Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >     > Hi Paul,
> >     >
> >     > I suppose you refer to Java Applets, hope other could give more
> info
> > about
> >     > this, but although you're in part right, I think Flash Player is
> > more well
> >     > integrated in Browsers and Applets never had the power of Flash.
> But
> > it's
> >     > ok, you can enable in browsers... anyway, we 're in 2020 and seems
> > things
> >     > will continue its course, so nothing we can do to revert that.
> >     >
> >     > I always be a great advocate of the Flash platform, but I found in
> > Royale
> >     > something better that what we had with Flash. IMHO, we have the
> best
> > of
> >     > both worlds. From Flex/Flash I wanted the "development
> productivity",
> >     > languages (AS3, MXML), compiler, AMF, and many other things. From
> > web I
> >     > always liked things like CSS (that's far superior than what we had
> > in Flex
> >     > for sure), and the fact that we are not constraint to a plugin and
> a
> >     > sandbox, so it's more easy to do things for the web.
> >     >
> >     > We have both combined now in Royale, and that's for me amazing. As
> > we get
> >     > components with clear API definitions, and access to latest
> browsers
> >     > features, we are getting the same productivity that we had in Flex,
> > and as
> >     > well we are removing the complexity in Browsers where you need to
> > test in
> >     > each browsers or lost time solving browser compatibility problems.
> We
> >     > finally can have things like IoC (Inversion of Control), DI
> > (Dependency
> >     > Injection), Metadata, MXML, Routing (Deep Linking), LocalStorage
> > (like old
> >     > Local SharedObject), just to name a few.
> >     >
> >     > But even more, since the bead/strand Arquitecture is really
> > powerful, and
> >     > Apps build with royale are more easy to build that even was in
> > Royale. And
> >     > the most important: Performance: The apps built with Royale has an
> >     > outstanding performance. Apps migrated from Flex use to be many XX%
> > faster
> >     > in Royale.
> >     >
> >     > I must say, I'm very happy with what we're getting with Apache
> > Royale :)
> >     >
> >     > Carlos
> >     >
> >     > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:46, Paul Stearns ()
> >     > escribió:
> >     >
> >     > > I am investing Royale, but haven't seen any results yet.
> >     > >
> >     > > I am showing my ignorance here, but, my confusion is, will Java
> > still be
> >     > > deployable via web browsers? If so, what is the difference
> between
> > using
> >     > a
> >     > > web browser to deploy a Java app, and a Flash app?
> >     > >
> >     > > Why couldn't Adobe/Harmon changed Flash to use the methodology
> > Flash uses
> >     > > for deployment?
> >     > >
> >     > > Paul R. Stearns
> >     > > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> >     > >
> >     > > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> >     > > Suite 250
> >     > > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> >     > >
> >     > > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> >     > > Fax: (305)623-4588
> >     > >
> >     > > ------------------------------
> >     > > *From*: Carlos Rovira
> >     > > *Sent*: 3/9/20 3:31 PM
> >     > > *To*: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
> >     > > *Subject*: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >     > > Hi Paul,
> >     > >
> >     > > must say don't know what's the actual support of Adobe for Flash
> > Player,
> >     > > or if it will left to Harman as part of the AIR deal, maybe
> Andrew
> > can
> >     > give
> >     > > some light on this. Since Flash will be just present on AIR, and
> > not in
> >     > any
> >     > > other place, that could have sense. But that will mean more
> > maintenance
> >     > > effort and people needed by Harman.
> >     > >
> >     > > Anyway, donating to Apache has no sense at all, since Flash
> Player
> > has
> >     > > many licensed closed source parts that can't be open source, or
> at
> > least
> >     > > that's what they always says. But again...donating Flash Player
> and
> >     > making
> >     > > it OS, if it could be something doable at some point (let's go
> > utopic ;),
> >     > > does not change anything, since Browser vendors are closing
> plugin
> > doors.
> >     > > So even in that case, it continue to be a death end.
> >     > >
> >     > > I think Apache Royale is this days in a very good shape, and is
> > better
> >     > > each day... so I maybe people should give a try and consider it
> as
> > an
> >     > > option for the future.
> >     > >
> >     > > Thanks
> >     > >
> >     > > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:04, Paul Stearns ()
> >     > > escribió:
> >     > >
> >     > >> Has Adobe stopped supporting it, and has not turned it over to
> > Apache?
> >     > >> Now that is just unconscionable.
> >     > >>
> >     > >> Paul R. Stearns
> >     > >> Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> >     > >>
> >     > >> 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> >     > >> Suite 250
> >     > >> Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> >     > >>
> >     > >> Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> >     > >> Fax: (305)623-4588
> >     > >>
> >     > >> ----------------------------------------
> >     > >> From: Carlos Rovira
> >     > >> Sent: 3/9/20 1:28 PM
> >     > >> To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
> >     > >> Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >     > >> Hi Paul,
> >     > >>
> >     > >> not bad idea, but don't know a browser that will support Flash,
> > and the
> >     > >> problem is Adobe is stopping supporting flash player as a
> plugin,
> > so I'm
> >     > >> afraid that's not possible.
> >     > >>
> >     > >> El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 17:40, Paul Stearns ()
> >     > >> escribió:
> >     > >>
> >     > >> > Better yet, how about supporting a browser whose main feature
> > is the
> >     > >> > support of Flex?
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > My applications are 99.9% flex. The main things I use the
> > browser for
> >     > is
> >     > >> > application deployment, file upload/download and displaying
> PDF
> >     > files..
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > Paul R. Stearns
> >     > >> > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> >     > >> > Suite 250
> >     > >> > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> >     > >> > Fax: (305)623-4588
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > ----------------------------------------
> >     > >> > From: Carlos Rovira
> >     > >> > Sent: 3/9/20 10:09 AM
> >     > >> > To: [hidden email]
> >     > >> > Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >     > >> > Hi Andrew,
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > When Dec, 31th arrives, Flex will be out of browsers, so just
> > allowed
> >     > >> using
> >     > >> > AIR. Maybe AIR could have an option to bundle Apache Flex with
> > each
> >     > >> version
> >     > >> > that ensures all work right. I mean, in 2021, Apache Flex will
> > not
> >     > have
> >     > >> > sense with AIR right? so why not to think in something that
> > ease even
> >     > >> more
> >     > >> > AIR+Flex marriage? Of course a version without Flex should
> have
> > sense
> >     > >> too
> >     > >> > for people that does not use Flex at all.
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > Make that sense?
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > Thanks
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > Carlos
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 14:45, Frost, Andrew ()
> >     > >> > escribió:
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > > Hi
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> > > We'd be happy to add things like this geometry API change -
> > but it's
> >     > >> then
> >     > >> > > going to be version-dependent so it would need to be
> compiled
> >     > against
> >     > >> the
> >     > >> > > later AIR SDK and would only run on the later AIR runtime..
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> > > I'm not sure whether there are other changes that would
> really
> >     > impact
> >     > >> the
> >     > >> > > Flex SDK itself. So perhaps we can consider these on a
> > case-by-case
> >     > >> > basis.
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> > > The one thing I keep coming back to though, is that it seems
> > to be a
> >     > >> very
> >     > >> > > painful process for (a) people to download and start using a
> > new AIR
> >     > >> SDK,
> >     > >> > > and (b) people who then have to combine a Flex SDK with an
> > AIR SDK!
> >     > >> So we
> >     > >> > > should perhaps address this in the first instance (and from
> > our QA
> >     > >> folk,
> >     > >> > > having a simple way to ensure you get back to a clean
> version
> > of
> >     > >> one/both
> >     > >> > > of these SDKs would be good too!)
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> > > Any other thoughts on missing features or things that would
> be
> >     > useful,
> >     > >> > > please send them in!
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> > > thanks
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> > > Andrew
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >     > >> > > From: Piotr Zarzycki
> >     > >> > > Sent: 09 March 2020 13:01
> >     > >> > > To: [hidden email]
> >     > >> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> > > Hi Andrew,
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> > > This kind of situation may occur more often in the future if
> > Air
> >     > would
> >     > >> > > have more and more features. Is there any plan to someone
> > from your
> >     > >> Team
> >     > >> > > simply add missing stuff to Flex? Any thoughts on this
> > approach?
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> > > Thanks,
> >     > >> > > Piotr
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020, 1:49 PM Frost, Andrew
> >     > >> > > wrote:
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> > > > Hi Olaf
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >> > > > > I think it would be nice if any AIR updates would be
> > compatible
> >     > >> with
> >     > >> > > > > the
> >     > >> > > > latest Flex SDK
> >     > >> > > > Yes completely agree, this was an error on our part to not
> >     > consider
> >     > >> > > > the fact that overrides of the APIs that we were changing
> > would
> >     > have
> >     > >> > > > been affected. The changes were reverted, and we have
> >     > re-implemented
> >     > >> > > > the new functionality within additional APIs/methods so
> that
> >     > >> existing
> >     > >> > > > apps will now compile/run without any changes on the
> > 33.1.1.63
> >     > >> release.
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >> > > > We definitely intend that there is still full
> compatibility
> >     > between
> >     > >> > > > Flex and any changes we make with AIR.. so thanks to
> > leokan23 and
> >     > >> Alex
> >     > >> > > > for bringing this to our attention!
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >> > > > thanks
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >> > > > Andrew
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> >     > >> > > > From: Olaf Krueger
> >     > >> > > > Sent: 06 March 2020 20:30
> >     > >> > > > To: [hidden email]
> >     > >> > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >> > > > Hi,
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >> > > > I didn't follow the entire discussion, but I'd like to
> > mention
> >     > that
> >     > >> I
> >     > >> > > > am not sure if we still have enough volunteers which are
> > willing
> >     > to
> >     > >> > > > work on a new Flex release.
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >> > > > That said, I think it would be nice if any AIR updates
> > would be
> >     > >> > > > compatible with the latest Flex SDK... as long as it's
> > possible.
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >> > > > Thanks,
> >     > >> > > > Olaf
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >> > > > --
> >     > >> > > > Sent from:
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >>
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3T23VtMr4Dz6j6DqBbgaf5T7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&amp;sdata=VNLYBUe1LJaLdwUrgqOC6YZsYufcwhlivkiljxQTyE8%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >     > >> > > > %2Fapache-flex-users.2333346.n4.nabble.com%2F
> >     > >> > > >
> >     > >> > >
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > --
> >     > >> > Carlos Rovira
> >     > >> >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&amp;sdata=M2iILzk8UGcWyJ6WHBJPaFpVk%2B7f%2Bg2V2O4dD3RHtTc%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> >
> >     > >>
> >     > >> --
> >     > >> Carlos Rovira
> >     > >>
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >
> >     > > --
> >     > > Carlos Rovira
> >     > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     >
> >     > --
> >     > Carlos Rovira
> >     >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >
> >     --
> >     Carlos Rovira
> >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>


--

Piotr Zarzycki

Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki
<https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>*
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Re: GUI IDE need.

Carlos Rovira-2
That sounds very cool Piotr! :)

El mar., 10 mar. 2020 a las 12:39, Piotr Zarzycki (<
[hidden email]>) escribió:

> Hi Guys,
>
> We have plan to add simple GUI IDE to Moonshine which outputs Royale Jewel
> type of applications. Be patience and observer Moonshine IDE on GitHub. ;)
>
> Thanks,
> Piotr
>
> wt., 10 mar 2020 o 11:05 Carlos Rovira <[hidden email]>
> napisał(a):
>
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > the example you posted is easy to do nowadays with current Royale in
> > development branch. You can take a try with Jewel or emulation
> components.
> > You'll be surprised of how far Royale is this days :).
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Carlos
> >
> >
> >
> > El mar., 10 mar. 2020 a las 5:28, Alex Harui (<[hidden email]
> >)
> > escribió:
> >
> > > While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale,
> there
> > > is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one
> that
> > > wasn't possible with Flash Player.
> > >
> > > IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit
> > > the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in
> the
> > > browser.
> > >
> > > The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the
> > > browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some
> > > button that will then update the MXML.
> > >
> > > There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are
> > > available at this time.  The main one is that use of view states
> greatly
> > > complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well).  So
> one
> > > question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
> > >
> > > -Alex
> > >
> > > On 3/9/20, 8:26 PM, "Paul Stearns" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >     Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger modules
> > has
> > > 1,390 lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29
> enterable
> > > "fields" another tab has over 50 enterable fields.
> > >
> > >     Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the type
> of
> > > data entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best
> without
> > > using a GUI editor. If you are designing traditional web applications
> > where
> > > everything is stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do
> > that
> > > without a GUI IDE. If however you want to design highly usable business
> > > applications deployed to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you
> need
> > > GUI tools to be productive.
> > >
> > >     My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be
> found
> > > here, be sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as
> > expected,
> > > let me know, no data is stored)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.yozyo.net%2FTestModule%2Fbin-release%2FMain.html%3Ftest%3D123&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&amp;sdata=iA9Av%2FhjDmDmMqdRVgsb2wb33Eqq8G7VVpbQ1cQDJ%2Bg%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > >
> > >     Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with x/y
> > > placement of items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.
> > >
> > >     Paul R. Stearns
> > >     Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> > >
> > >     15280 NW 79th Ct.
> > >     Suite 250
> > >     Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> > >
> > >     Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> > >     Fax: (305)623-4588
> > >
> > >     ----------------------------------------
> > >     From: Carlos Rovira <[hidden email]>
> > >     Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
> > >     To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns <[hidden email]>
> > >     Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> > >     Hi Paul,
> > >
> > >     many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that
> reason I
> > >     started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash and
> AMF
> > in
> > >     early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC
> (someone
> > >     remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just needed.
> That
> > > was
> > >     very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that time.
> > >
> > >     Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode in
> > Flash
> > > and
> > >     Royale is the current Flex. So it's clear that you don't need to go
> > > very
> > >     "low level", but if you needed, you can do it! (and that's good).
> But
> > >     Royale should allow you to develop without the need to go that
> route.
> > > and
> > >     just use good proven patterns like Flex did. We're working towards
> > >     that...and I think we're already got it. :)
> > >
> > >     About GUI IDE, although I think is something very cool to have
> > > something
> > >     like that, I abandoned that kind of tools many years ago. Maybe in
> > the
> > >     future I could be working in something like that, just for
> pleasure,
> > > but
> > >     for now there's still many work to do in Royale in things more
> > needed.
> > >     Maybe others could drive that effort... But I really think the
> > current
> > >     Royale coding is very straight forward to do. As well examples like
> > > Tour De
> > >     Jewel has a lot of code to see how things should be used and learn
> > > from it
> > >     a lot of good practices.
> > >
> > >     El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 22:48, Paul Stearns ()
> > >     escribió:
> > >
> > >     > What attracted me to Flex initially was that it ran in its own
> > >     > environment, completely separate from the html, web browser and
> > their
> > >     > multitude of DOMs. I used to write apps in ASP/HTML, and every
> > other
> > > week a
> > >     > new version of a browser would break something.
> > >     >
> > >     > For the type of applications I write & support, having a GUI
> IDE, a
> > >     > defined language (like as3 & mxml) and an engine which which
> > provides
> > >     > consistent results across platforms are the most important
> > features.
> > > At
> > >     > this point the weakness I see in Royale is there isn't a GUI IDE,
> > > and since
> > >     > it doesn't have its own engine, it relies on the vicissitudes of
> > > javascript
> > >     > and how the particular browser it is running in implements its
> DOM.
> > >     >
> > >     > This is why I shied away from .NET, and PHP in the past except
> for
> > > more
> > >     > traditional websites with a bit of user interaction. Javascript
> > > frameworks
> > >     > just hide the ugliness, they don't make it go away.
> > >     >
> > >     > Having said all of the above, I am taking a chance on Royale to
> see
> > > what
> > >     > the level of effort will be to convert to it.
> > >     >
> > >     > Paul R. Stearns
> > >     > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> > >     >
> > >     > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> > >     > Suite 250
> > >     > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> > >     >
> > >     > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> > >     > Fax: (305)623-4588
> > >     >
> > >     > ----------------------------------------
> > >     > From: Carlos Rovira
> > >     > Sent: 3/9/20 4:55 PM
> > >     > To: Paul Stearns
> > >     > Cc: [hidden email]
> > >     > Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> > >     > Hi Paul,
> > >     >
> > >     > I suppose you refer to Java Applets, hope other could give more
> > info
> > > about
> > >     > this, but although you're in part right, I think Flash Player is
> > > more well
> > >     > integrated in Browsers and Applets never had the power of Flash.
> > But
> > > it's
> > >     > ok, you can enable in browsers... anyway, we 're in 2020 and
> seems
> > > things
> > >     > will continue its course, so nothing we can do to revert that.
> > >     >
> > >     > I always be a great advocate of the Flash platform, but I found
> in
> > > Royale
> > >     > something better that what we had with Flash. IMHO, we have the
> > best
> > > of
> > >     > both worlds. From Flex/Flash I wanted the "development
> > productivity",
> > >     > languages (AS3, MXML), compiler, AMF, and many other things. From
> > > web I
> > >     > always liked things like CSS (that's far superior than what we
> had
> > > in Flex
> > >     > for sure), and the fact that we are not constraint to a plugin
> and
> > a
> > >     > sandbox, so it's more easy to do things for the web.
> > >     >
> > >     > We have both combined now in Royale, and that's for me amazing.
> As
> > > we get
> > >     > components with clear API definitions, and access to latest
> > browsers
> > >     > features, we are getting the same productivity that we had in
> Flex,
> > > and as
> > >     > well we are removing the complexity in Browsers where you need to
> > > test in
> > >     > each browsers or lost time solving browser compatibility
> problems.
> > We
> > >     > finally can have things like IoC (Inversion of Control), DI
> > > (Dependency
> > >     > Injection), Metadata, MXML, Routing (Deep Linking), LocalStorage
> > > (like old
> > >     > Local SharedObject), just to name a few.
> > >     >
> > >     > But even more, since the bead/strand Arquitecture is really
> > > powerful, and
> > >     > Apps build with royale are more easy to build that even was in
> > > Royale. And
> > >     > the most important: Performance: The apps built with Royale has
> an
> > >     > outstanding performance. Apps migrated from Flex use to be many
> XX%
> > > faster
> > >     > in Royale.
> > >     >
> > >     > I must say, I'm very happy with what we're getting with Apache
> > > Royale :)
> > >     >
> > >     > Carlos
> > >     >
> > >     > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:46, Paul Stearns ()
> > >     > escribió:
> > >     >
> > >     > > I am investing Royale, but haven't seen any results yet.
> > >     > >
> > >     > > I am showing my ignorance here, but, my confusion is, will Java
> > > still be
> > >     > > deployable via web browsers? If so, what is the difference
> > between
> > > using
> > >     > a
> > >     > > web browser to deploy a Java app, and a Flash app?
> > >     > >
> > >     > > Why couldn't Adobe/Harmon changed Flash to use the methodology
> > > Flash uses
> > >     > > for deployment?
> > >     > >
> > >     > > Paul R. Stearns
> > >     > > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> > >     > >
> > >     > > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> > >     > > Suite 250
> > >     > > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> > >     > >
> > >     > > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> > >     > > Fax: (305)623-4588
> > >     > >
> > >     > > ------------------------------
> > >     > > *From*: Carlos Rovira
> > >     > > *Sent*: 3/9/20 3:31 PM
> > >     > > *To*: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
> > >     > > *Subject*: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> > >     > > Hi Paul,
> > >     > >
> > >     > > must say don't know what's the actual support of Adobe for
> Flash
> > > Player,
> > >     > > or if it will left to Harman as part of the AIR deal, maybe
> > Andrew
> > > can
> > >     > give
> > >     > > some light on this. Since Flash will be just present on AIR,
> and
> > > not in
> > >     > any
> > >     > > other place, that could have sense. But that will mean more
> > > maintenance
> > >     > > effort and people needed by Harman.
> > >     > >
> > >     > > Anyway, donating to Apache has no sense at all, since Flash
> > Player
> > > has
> > >     > > many licensed closed source parts that can't be open source, or
> > at
> > > least
> > >     > > that's what they always says. But again...donating Flash Player
> > and
> > >     > making
> > >     > > it OS, if it could be something doable at some point (let's go
> > > utopic ;),
> > >     > > does not change anything, since Browser vendors are closing
> > plugin
> > > doors.
> > >     > > So even in that case, it continue to be a death end.
> > >     > >
> > >     > > I think Apache Royale is this days in a very good shape, and is
> > > better
> > >     > > each day... so I maybe people should give a try and consider it
> > as
> > > an
> > >     > > option for the future.
> > >     > >
> > >     > > Thanks
> > >     > >
> > >     > > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:04, Paul Stearns ()
> > >     > > escribió:
> > >     > >
> > >     > >> Has Adobe stopped supporting it, and has not turned it over to
> > > Apache?
> > >     > >> Now that is just unconscionable.
> > >     > >>
> > >     > >> Paul R. Stearns
> > >     > >> Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> > >     > >>
> > >     > >> 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> > >     > >> Suite 250
> > >     > >> Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> > >     > >>
> > >     > >> Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> > >     > >> Fax: (305)623-4588
> > >     > >>
> > >     > >> ----------------------------------------
> > >     > >> From: Carlos Rovira
> > >     > >> Sent: 3/9/20 1:28 PM
> > >     > >> To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
> > >     > >> Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> > >     > >> Hi Paul,
> > >     > >>
> > >     > >> not bad idea, but don't know a browser that will support
> Flash,
> > > and the
> > >     > >> problem is Adobe is stopping supporting flash player as a
> > plugin,
> > > so I'm
> > >     > >> afraid that's not possible.
> > >     > >>
> > >     > >> El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 17:40, Paul Stearns ()
> > >     > >> escribió:
> > >     > >>
> > >     > >> > Better yet, how about supporting a browser whose main
> feature
> > > is the
> > >     > >> > support of Flex?
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >> > My applications are 99.9% flex. The main things I use the
> > > browser for
> > >     > is
> > >     > >> > application deployment, file upload/download and displaying
> > PDF
> > >     > files..
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >> > Paul R. Stearns
> > >     > >> > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >> > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> > >     > >> > Suite 250
> > >     > >> > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >> > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> > >     > >> > Fax: (305)623-4588
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >> > ----------------------------------------
> > >     > >> > From: Carlos Rovira
> > >     > >> > Sent: 3/9/20 10:09 AM
> > >     > >> > To: [hidden email]
> > >     > >> > Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> > >     > >> > Hi Andrew,
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >> > When Dec, 31th arrives, Flex will be out of browsers, so
> just
> > > allowed
> > >     > >> using
> > >     > >> > AIR. Maybe AIR could have an option to bundle Apache Flex
> with
> > > each
> > >     > >> version
> > >     > >> > that ensures all work right. I mean, in 2021, Apache Flex
> will
> > > not
> > >     > have
> > >     > >> > sense with AIR right? so why not to think in something that
> > > ease even
> > >     > >> more
> > >     > >> > AIR+Flex marriage? Of course a version without Flex should
> > have
> > > sense
> > >     > >> too
> > >     > >> > for people that does not use Flex at all.
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >> > Make that sense?
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >> > Thanks
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >> > Carlos
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >> > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 14:45, Frost, Andrew ()
> > >     > >> > escribió:
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >> > > Hi
> > >     > >> > >
> > >     > >> > > We'd be happy to add things like this geometry API change
> -
> > > but it's
> > >     > >> then
> > >     > >> > > going to be version-dependent so it would need to be
> > compiled
> > >     > against
> > >     > >> the
> > >     > >> > > later AIR SDK and would only run on the later AIR
> runtime..
> > >     > >> > >
> > >     > >> > > I'm not sure whether there are other changes that would
> > really
> > >     > impact
> > >     > >> the
> > >     > >> > > Flex SDK itself. So perhaps we can consider these on a
> > > case-by-case
> > >     > >> > basis.
> > >     > >> > >
> > >     > >> > > The one thing I keep coming back to though, is that it
> seems
> > > to be a
> > >     > >> very
> > >     > >> > > painful process for (a) people to download and start
> using a
> > > new AIR
> > >     > >> SDK,
> > >     > >> > > and (b) people who then have to combine a Flex SDK with an
> > > AIR SDK!
> > >     > >> So we
> > >     > >> > > should perhaps address this in the first instance (and
> from
> > > our QA
> > >     > >> folk,
> > >     > >> > > having a simple way to ensure you get back to a clean
> > version
> > > of
> > >     > >> one/both
> > >     > >> > > of these SDKs would be good too!)
> > >     > >> > >
> > >     > >> > > Any other thoughts on missing features or things that
> would
> > be
> > >     > useful,
> > >     > >> > > please send them in!
> > >     > >> > >
> > >     > >> > > thanks
> > >     > >> > >
> > >     > >> > > Andrew
> > >     > >> > >
> > >     > >> > >
> > >     > >> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >     > >> > > From: Piotr Zarzycki
> > >     > >> > > Sent: 09 March 2020 13:01
> > >     > >> > > To: [hidden email]
> > >     > >> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> > >     > >> > >
> > >     > >> > > Hi Andrew,
> > >     > >> > >
> > >     > >> > > This kind of situation may occur more often in the future
> if
> > > Air
> > >     > would
> > >     > >> > > have more and more features. Is there any plan to someone
> > > from your
> > >     > >> Team
> > >     > >> > > simply add missing stuff to Flex? Any thoughts on this
> > > approach?
> > >     > >> > >
> > >     > >> > > Thanks,
> > >     > >> > > Piotr
> > >     > >> > >
> > >     > >> > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020, 1:49 PM Frost, Andrew
> > >     > >> > > wrote:
> > >     > >> > >
> > >     > >> > > > Hi Olaf
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >> > > > > I think it would be nice if any AIR updates would be
> > > compatible
> > >     > >> with
> > >     > >> > > > > the
> > >     > >> > > > latest Flex SDK
> > >     > >> > > > Yes completely agree, this was an error on our part to
> not
> > >     > consider
> > >     > >> > > > the fact that overrides of the APIs that we were
> changing
> > > would
> > >     > have
> > >     > >> > > > been affected. The changes were reverted, and we have
> > >     > re-implemented
> > >     > >> > > > the new functionality within additional APIs/methods so
> > that
> > >     > >> existing
> > >     > >> > > > apps will now compile/run without any changes on the
> > > 33.1.1.63
> > >     > >> release.
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >> > > > We definitely intend that there is still full
> > compatibility
> > >     > between
> > >     > >> > > > Flex and any changes we make with AIR.. so thanks to
> > > leokan23 and
> > >     > >> Alex
> > >     > >> > > > for bringing this to our attention!
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >> > > > thanks
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >> > > > Andrew
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >     > >> > > > From: Olaf Krueger
> > >     > >> > > > Sent: 06 March 2020 20:30
> > >     > >> > > > To: [hidden email]
> > >     > >> > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >> > > > Hi,
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >> > > > I didn't follow the entire discussion, but I'd like to
> > > mention
> > >     > that
> > >     > >> I
> > >     > >> > > > am not sure if we still have enough volunteers which are
> > > willing
> > >     > to
> > >     > >> > > > work on a new Flex release.
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >> > > > That said, I think it would be nice if any AIR updates
> > > would be
> > >     > >> > > > compatible with the latest Flex SDK... as long as it's
> > > possible.
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >> > > > Thanks,
> > >     > >> > > > Olaf
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >> > > > --
> > >     > >> > > > Sent from:
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >>
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3T23VtMr4Dz6j6DqBbgaf5T7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&amp;sdata=VNLYBUe1LJaLdwUrgqOC6YZsYufcwhlivkiljxQTyE8%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > >     > >> > > > %2Fapache-flex-users.2333346.n4.nabble.com%2F
> > >     > >> > > >
> > >     > >> > >
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >> > --
> > >     > >> > Carlos Rovira
> > >     > >> >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&amp;sdata=M2iILzk8UGcWyJ6WHBJPaFpVk%2B7f%2Bg2V2O4dD3RHtTc%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >> >
> > >     > >>
> > >     > >> --
> > >     > >> Carlos Rovira
> > >     > >>
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > >     > >>
> > >     > >>
> > >     > >>
> > >     > >
> > >     > > --
> > >     > > Carlos Rovira
> > >     > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > >     > >
> > >     > >
> > >     >
> > >     > --
> > >     > Carlos Rovira
> > >     >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > >     >
> > >     >
> > >     >
> > >
> > >     --
> > >     Carlos Rovira
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&amp;sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Rovira
> > http://about.me/carlosrovira
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Piotr Zarzycki
>
> Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki
> <https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>*
>


--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira
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Re: GUI IDE need.

Paul Stearns
In reply to this post by Paul Stearns
I believe we use view states a few modules which we wrote very early on.

Once we started writing for production, we didn't see the utility in view states. Granular control was better handled in other ways.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588

----------------------------------------
From: Alex Harui <[hidden email]>
Sent: 3/10/20 12:28 AM
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.
While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that wasn't possible with Flash Player.

IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the browser.

The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some button that will then update the MXML.

There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are available at this time. The main one is that use of view states greatly complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well). So one question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?

-Alex

On 3/9/20, 8:26 PM, "Paul Stearns" wrote:

Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger modules has 1,390 lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29 enterable "fields" another tab has over 50 enterable fields.

Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the type of data entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best without using a GUI editor. If you are designing traditional web applications where everything is stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do that without a GUI IDE. If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be productive.

My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be found here, be sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as expected, let me know, no data is stored)

https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.yozyo.net%2FTestModule%2Fbin-release%2FMain.html%3Ftest%3D123&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&sdata=iA9Av%2FhjDmDmMqdRVgsb2wb33Eqq8G7VVpbQ1cQDJ%2Bg%3D&reserved=0

Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with x/y placement of items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588

----------------------------------------
From: Carlos Rovira
Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
Hi Paul,

many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that reason I
started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash and AMF in
early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC (someone
remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just needed. That was
very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that time.

Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode in Flash and
Royale is the current Flex. So it's clear that you don't need to go very
"low level", but if you needed, you can do it! (and that's good). But
Royale should allow you to develop without the need to go that route. and
just use good proven patterns like Flex did. We're working towards
that...and I think we're already got it. :)

About GUI IDE, although I think is something very cool to have something
like that, I abandoned that kind of tools many years ago. Maybe in the
future I could be working in something like that, just for pleasure, but
for now there's still many work to do in Royale in things more needed.
Maybe others could drive that effort... But I really think the current
Royale coding is very straight forward to do. As well examples like Tour De
Jewel has a lot of code to see how things should be used and learn from it
a lot of good practices.

El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 22:48, Paul Stearns ()
escribió:

> What attracted me to Flex initially was that it ran in its own
> environment, completely separate from the html, web browser and their
> multitude of DOMs. I used to write apps in ASP/HTML, and every other week a
> new version of a browser would break something.
>
> For the type of applications I write & support, having a GUI IDE, a
> defined language (like as3 & mxml) and an engine which which provides
> consistent results across platforms are the most important features. At
> this point the weakness I see in Royale is there isn't a GUI IDE, and since
> it doesn't have its own engine, it relies on the vicissitudes of javascript
> and how the particular browser it is running in implements its DOM.
>
> This is why I shied away from .NET, and PHP in the past except for more
> traditional websites with a bit of user interaction. Javascript frameworks
> just hide the ugliness, they don't make it go away.
>
> Having said all of the above, I am taking a chance on Royale to see what
> the level of effort will be to convert to it.
>
> Paul R. Stearns
> Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
>
> 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> Suite 250
> Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
>
> Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> Fax: (305)623-4588
>
> ----------------------------------------
> From: Carlos Rovira
> Sent: 3/9/20 4:55 PM
> To: Paul Stearns
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> Hi Paul,
>
> I suppose you refer to Java Applets, hope other could give more info about
> this, but although you're in part right, I think Flash Player is more well
> integrated in Browsers and Applets never had the power of Flash. But it's
> ok, you can enable in browsers... anyway, we 're in 2020 and seems things
> will continue its course, so nothing we can do to revert that.
>
> I always be a great advocate of the Flash platform, but I found in Royale
> something better that what we had with Flash. IMHO, we have the best of
> both worlds. From Flex/Flash I wanted the "development productivity",
> languages (AS3, MXML), compiler, AMF, and many other things. From web I
> always liked things like CSS (that's far superior than what we had in Flex
> for sure), and the fact that we are not constraint to a plugin and a
> sandbox, so it's more easy to do things for the web.
>
> We have both combined now in Royale, and that's for me amazing. As we get
> components with clear API definitions, and access to latest browsers
> features, we are getting the same productivity that we had in Flex, and as
> well we are removing the complexity in Browsers where you need to test in
> each browsers or lost time solving browser compatibility problems. We
> finally can have things like IoC (Inversion of Control), DI (Dependency
> Injection), Metadata, MXML, Routing (Deep Linking), LocalStorage (like old
> Local SharedObject), just to name a few.
>
> But even more, since the bead/strand Arquitecture is really powerful, and
> Apps build with royale are more easy to build that even was in Royale. And
> the most important: Performance: The apps built with Royale has an
> outstanding performance. Apps migrated from Flex use to be many XX% faster
> in Royale.
>
> I must say, I'm very happy with what we're getting with Apache Royale :)
>
> Carlos
>
> El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:46, Paul Stearns ()
> escribió:
>
> > I am investing Royale, but haven't seen any results yet.
> >
> > I am showing my ignorance here, but, my confusion is, will Java still be
> > deployable via web browsers? If so, what is the difference between using
> a
> > web browser to deploy a Java app, and a Flash app?
> >
> > Why couldn't Adobe/Harmon changed Flash to use the methodology Flash uses
> > for deployment?
> >
> > Paul R. Stearns
> > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> >
> > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> > Suite 250
> > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> >
> > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> > Fax: (305)623-4588
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From*: Carlos Rovira
> > *Sent*: 3/9/20 3:31 PM
> > *To*: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
> > *Subject*: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > must say don't know what's the actual support of Adobe for Flash Player,
> > or if it will left to Harman as part of the AIR deal, maybe Andrew can
> give
> > some light on this. Since Flash will be just present on AIR, and not in
> any
> > other place, that could have sense. But that will mean more maintenance
> > effort and people needed by Harman.
> >
> > Anyway, donating to Apache has no sense at all, since Flash Player has
> > many licensed closed source parts that can't be open source, or at least
> > that's what they always says. But again...donating Flash Player and
> making
> > it OS, if it could be something doable at some point (let's go utopic ;),
> > does not change anything, since Browser vendors are closing plugin doors.
> > So even in that case, it continue to be a death end.
> >
> > I think Apache Royale is this days in a very good shape, and is better
> > each day... so I maybe people should give a try and consider it as an
> > option for the future.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:04, Paul Stearns ()
> > escribió:
> >
> >> Has Adobe stopped supporting it, and has not turned it over to Apache?
> >> Now that is just unconscionable.
> >>
> >> Paul R. Stearns
> >> Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> >>
> >> 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> >> Suite 250
> >> Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> >>
> >> Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> >> Fax: (305)623-4588
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------
> >> From: Carlos Rovira
> >> Sent: 3/9/20 1:28 PM
> >> To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
> >> Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >> Hi Paul,
> >>
> >> not bad idea, but don't know a browser that will support Flash, and the
> >> problem is Adobe is stopping supporting flash player as a plugin, so I'm
> >> afraid that's not possible.
> >>
> >> El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 17:40, Paul Stearns ()
> >> escribió:
> >>
> >> > Better yet, how about supporting a browser whose main feature is the
> >> > support of Flex?
> >> >
> >> > My applications are 99.9% flex. The main things I use the browser for
> is
> >> > application deployment, file upload/download and displaying PDF
> files..
> >> >
> >> > Paul R. Stearns
> >> > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> >> >
> >> > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> >> > Suite 250
> >> > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> >> >
> >> > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> >> > Fax: (305)623-4588
> >> >
> >> > ----------------------------------------
> >> > From: Carlos Rovira
> >> > Sent: 3/9/20 10:09 AM
> >> > To: [hidden email]
> >> > Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >> > Hi Andrew,
> >> >
> >> > When Dec, 31th arrives, Flex will be out of browsers, so just allowed
> >> using
> >> > AIR. Maybe AIR could have an option to bundle Apache Flex with each
> >> version
> >> > that ensures all work right. I mean, in 2021, Apache Flex will not
> have
> >> > sense with AIR right? so why not to think in something that ease even
> >> more
> >> > AIR+Flex marriage? Of course a version without Flex should have sense
> >> too
> >> > for people that does not use Flex at all.
> >> >
> >> > Make that sense?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> >
> >> > Carlos
> >> >
> >> > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 14:45, Frost, Andrew ()
> >> > escribió:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi
> >> > >
> >> > > We'd be happy to add things like this geometry API change - but it's
> >> then
> >> > > going to be version-dependent so it would need to be compiled
> against
> >> the
> >> > > later AIR SDK and would only run on the later AIR runtime..
> >> > >
> >> > > I'm not sure whether there are other changes that would really
> impact
> >> the
> >> > > Flex SDK itself. So perhaps we can consider these on a case-by-case
> >> > basis.
> >> > >
> >> > > The one thing I keep coming back to though, is that it seems to be a
> >> very
> >> > > painful process for (a) people to download and start using a new AIR
> >> SDK,
> >> > > and (b) people who then have to combine a Flex SDK with an AIR SDK!
> >> So we
> >> > > should perhaps address this in the first instance (and from our QA
> >> folk,
> >> > > having a simple way to ensure you get back to a clean version of
> >> one/both
> >> > > of these SDKs would be good too!)
> >> > >
> >> > > Any other thoughts on missing features or things that would be
> useful,
> >> > > please send them in!
> >> > >
> >> > > thanks
> >> > >
> >> > > Andrew
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: Piotr Zarzycki
> >> > > Sent: 09 March 2020 13:01
> >> > > To: [hidden email]
> >> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi Andrew,
> >> > >
> >> > > This kind of situation may occur more often in the future if Air
> would
> >> > > have more and more features. Is there any plan to someone from your
> >> Team
> >> > > simply add missing stuff to Flex? Any thoughts on this approach?
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks,
> >> > > Piotr
> >> > >
> >> > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020, 1:49 PM Frost, Andrew
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Hi Olaf
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > I think it would be nice if any AIR updates would be compatible
> >> with
> >> > > > > the
> >> > > > latest Flex SDK
> >> > > > Yes completely agree, this was an error on our part to not
> consider
> >> > > > the fact that overrides of the APIs that we were changing would
> have
> >> > > > been affected. The changes were reverted, and we have
> re-implemented
> >> > > > the new functionality within additional APIs/methods so that
> >> existing
> >> > > > apps will now compile/run without any changes on the 33.1.1.63
> >> release.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > We definitely intend that there is still full compatibility
> between
> >> > > > Flex and any changes we make with AIR.. so thanks to leokan23 and
> >> Alex
> >> > > > for bringing this to our attention!
> >> > > >
> >> > > > thanks
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Andrew
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > From: Olaf Krueger
> >> > > > Sent: 06 March 2020 20:30
> >> > > > To: [hidden email]
> >> > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hi,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I didn't follow the entire discussion, but I'd like to mention
> that
> >> I
> >> > > > am not sure if we still have enough volunteers which are willing
> to
> >> > > > work on a new Flex release.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > That said, I think it would be nice if any AIR updates would be
> >> > > > compatible with the latest Flex SDK... as long as it's possible.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks,
> >> > > > Olaf
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Sent from:
> >> > > >
> >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3T23VtMr4Dz6j6DqBbgaf5T7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&sdata=VNLYBUe1LJaLdwUrgqOC6YZsYufcwhlivkiljxQTyE8%3D&reserved=0
> >> > > > %2Fapache-flex-users.2333346.n4.nabble.com%2F
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Carlos Rovira
> >> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790&sdata=M2iILzk8UGcWyJ6WHBJPaFpVk%2B7f%2Bg2V2O4dD3RHtTc%3D&reserved=0
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> Carlos Rovira
> >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&reserved=0
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Rovira
> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>

--
Carlos Rovira
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912249784&sdata=QQrsLW%2B%2BScKRSe4vFxghzris7E1zv5ZLoRhe0KGJp%2Fo%3D&reserved=0


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Re: GUI IDE need.

Alex Harui-2
In reply to this post by piotrz
Sounds exciting.  Hopefully the GUI editor will use a browser as the renderer and be more like live-editing than trying to emulate the browser DOM.

Of course, I could be wrong...

-Alex

On 3/10/20, 4:39 AM, "Piotr Zarzycki" <[hidden email]> wrote:

    Hi Guys,
   
    We have plan to add simple GUI IDE to Moonshine which outputs Royale Jewel
    type of applications. Be patience and observer Moonshine IDE on GitHub. ;)
   
    Thanks,
    Piotr
   
    wt., 10 mar 2020 o 11:05 Carlos Rovira <[hidden email]> napisał(a):
   
    > Hi Paul,
    >
    > the example you posted is easy to do nowadays with current Royale in
    > development branch. You can take a try with Jewel or emulation components.
    > You'll be surprised of how far Royale is this days :).
    >
    > Best
    >
    > Carlos
    >
    >
    >
    > El mar., 10 mar. 2020 a las 5:28, Alex Harui (<[hidden email]>)
    > escribió:
    >
    > > While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there
    > > is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that
    > > wasn't possible with Flash Player.
    > >
    > > IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit
    > > the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the
    > > browser.
    > >
    > > The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the
    > > browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some
    > > button that will then update the MXML.
    > >
    > > There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are
    > > available at this time.  The main one is that use of view states greatly
    > > complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well).  So one
    > > question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
    > >
    > > -Alex
    > >
    > > On 3/9/20, 8:26 PM, "Paul Stearns" <[hidden email]> wrote:
    > >
    > >     Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger modules
    > has
    > > 1,390 lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29 enterable
    > > "fields" another tab has over 50 enterable fields.
    > >
    > >     Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the type of
    > > data entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best without
    > > using a GUI editor. If you are designing traditional web applications
    > where
    > > everything is stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do
    > that
    > > without a GUI IDE. If however you want to design highly usable business
    > > applications deployed to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need
    > > GUI tools to be productive.
    > >
    > >     My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be found
    > > here, be sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as
    > expected,
    > > let me know, no data is stored)
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.yozyo.net%2FTestModule%2Fbin-release%2FMain.html%3Ftest%3D123&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909967487&amp;sdata=9FwboMWcAlwGX7FtsA8q6%2B1Fb1L1obsoI7VS8ONISCA%3D&amp;reserved=0
    > >
    > >     Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with x/y
    > > placement of items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.
    > >
    > >     Paul R. Stearns
    > >     Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
    > >
    > >     15280 NW 79th Ct.
    > >     Suite 250
    > >     Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
    > >
    > >     Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
    > >     Fax: (305)623-4588
    > >
    > >     ----------------------------------------
    > >     From: Carlos Rovira <[hidden email]>
    > >     Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
    > >     To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns <[hidden email]>
    > >     Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
    > >     Hi Paul,
    > >
    > >     many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that reason I
    > >     started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash and AMF
    > in
    > >     early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC (someone
    > >     remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just needed. That
    > > was
    > >     very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that time.
    > >
    > >     Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode in
    > Flash
    > > and
    > >     Royale is the current Flex. So it's clear that you don't need to go
    > > very
    > >     "low level", but if you needed, you can do it! (and that's good). But
    > >     Royale should allow you to develop without the need to go that route.
    > > and
    > >     just use good proven patterns like Flex did. We're working towards
    > >     that...and I think we're already got it. :)
    > >
    > >     About GUI IDE, although I think is something very cool to have
    > > something
    > >     like that, I abandoned that kind of tools many years ago. Maybe in
    > the
    > >     future I could be working in something like that, just for pleasure,
    > > but
    > >     for now there's still many work to do in Royale in things more
    > needed.
    > >     Maybe others could drive that effort... But I really think the
    > current
    > >     Royale coding is very straight forward to do. As well examples like
    > > Tour De
    > >     Jewel has a lot of code to see how things should be used and learn
    > > from it
    > >     a lot of good practices.
    > >
    > >     El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 22:48, Paul Stearns ()
    > >     escribió:
    > >
    > >     > What attracted me to Flex initially was that it ran in its own
    > >     > environment, completely separate from the html, web browser and
    > their
    > >     > multitude of DOMs. I used to write apps in ASP/HTML, and every
    > other
    > > week a
    > >     > new version of a browser would break something.
    > >     >
    > >     > For the type of applications I write & support, having a GUI IDE, a
    > >     > defined language (like as3 & mxml) and an engine which which
    > provides
    > >     > consistent results across platforms are the most important
    > features.
    > > At
    > >     > this point the weakness I see in Royale is there isn't a GUI IDE,
    > > and since
    > >     > it doesn't have its own engine, it relies on the vicissitudes of
    > > javascript
    > >     > and how the particular browser it is running in implements its DOM.
    > >     >
    > >     > This is why I shied away from .NET, and PHP in the past except for
    > > more
    > >     > traditional websites with a bit of user interaction. Javascript
    > > frameworks
    > >     > just hide the ugliness, they don't make it go away.
    > >     >
    > >     > Having said all of the above, I am taking a chance on Royale to see
    > > what
    > >     > the level of effort will be to convert to it.
    > >     >
    > >     > Paul R. Stearns
    > >     > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
    > >     >
    > >     > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
    > >     > Suite 250
    > >     > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
    > >     >
    > >     > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
    > >     > Fax: (305)623-4588
    > >     >
    > >     > ----------------------------------------
    > >     > From: Carlos Rovira
    > >     > Sent: 3/9/20 4:55 PM
    > >     > To: Paul Stearns
    > >     > Cc: [hidden email]
    > >     > Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
    > >     > Hi Paul,
    > >     >
    > >     > I suppose you refer to Java Applets, hope other could give more
    > info
    > > about
    > >     > this, but although you're in part right, I think Flash Player is
    > > more well
    > >     > integrated in Browsers and Applets never had the power of Flash.
    > But
    > > it's
    > >     > ok, you can enable in browsers... anyway, we 're in 2020 and seems
    > > things
    > >     > will continue its course, so nothing we can do to revert that.
    > >     >
    > >     > I always be a great advocate of the Flash platform, but I found in
    > > Royale
    > >     > something better that what we had with Flash. IMHO, we have the
    > best
    > > of
    > >     > both worlds. From Flex/Flash I wanted the "development
    > productivity",
    > >     > languages (AS3, MXML), compiler, AMF, and many other things. From
    > > web I
    > >     > always liked things like CSS (that's far superior than what we had
    > > in Flex
    > >     > for sure), and the fact that we are not constraint to a plugin and
    > a
    > >     > sandbox, so it's more easy to do things for the web.
    > >     >
    > >     > We have both combined now in Royale, and that's for me amazing. As
    > > we get
    > >     > components with clear API definitions, and access to latest
    > browsers
    > >     > features, we are getting the same productivity that we had in Flex,
    > > and as
    > >     > well we are removing the complexity in Browsers where you need to
    > > test in
    > >     > each browsers or lost time solving browser compatibility problems.
    > We
    > >     > finally can have things like IoC (Inversion of Control), DI
    > > (Dependency
    > >     > Injection), Metadata, MXML, Routing (Deep Linking), LocalStorage
    > > (like old
    > >     > Local SharedObject), just to name a few.
    > >     >
    > >     > But even more, since the bead/strand Arquitecture is really
    > > powerful, and
    > >     > Apps build with royale are more easy to build that even was in
    > > Royale. And
    > >     > the most important: Performance: The apps built with Royale has an
    > >     > outstanding performance. Apps migrated from Flex use to be many XX%
    > > faster
    > >     > in Royale.
    > >     >
    > >     > I must say, I'm very happy with what we're getting with Apache
    > > Royale :)
    > >     >
    > >     > Carlos
    > >     >
    > >     > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:46, Paul Stearns ()
    > >     > escribió:
    > >     >
    > >     > > I am investing Royale, but haven't seen any results yet.
    > >     > >
    > >     > > I am showing my ignorance here, but, my confusion is, will Java
    > > still be
    > >     > > deployable via web browsers? If so, what is the difference
    > between
    > > using
    > >     > a
    > >     > > web browser to deploy a Java app, and a Flash app?
    > >     > >
    > >     > > Why couldn't Adobe/Harmon changed Flash to use the methodology
    > > Flash uses
    > >     > > for deployment?
    > >     > >
    > >     > > Paul R. Stearns
    > >     > > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
    > >     > >
    > >     > > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
    > >     > > Suite 250
    > >     > > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
    > >     > >
    > >     > > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
    > >     > > Fax: (305)623-4588
    > >     > >
    > >     > > ------------------------------
    > >     > > *From*: Carlos Rovira
    > >     > > *Sent*: 3/9/20 3:31 PM
    > >     > > *To*: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
    > >     > > *Subject*: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
    > >     > > Hi Paul,
    > >     > >
    > >     > > must say don't know what's the actual support of Adobe for Flash
    > > Player,
    > >     > > or if it will left to Harman as part of the AIR deal, maybe
    > Andrew
    > > can
    > >     > give
    > >     > > some light on this. Since Flash will be just present on AIR, and
    > > not in
    > >     > any
    > >     > > other place, that could have sense. But that will mean more
    > > maintenance
    > >     > > effort and people needed by Harman.
    > >     > >
    > >     > > Anyway, donating to Apache has no sense at all, since Flash
    > Player
    > > has
    > >     > > many licensed closed source parts that can't be open source, or
    > at
    > > least
    > >     > > that's what they always says. But again...donating Flash Player
    > and
    > >     > making
    > >     > > it OS, if it could be something doable at some point (let's go
    > > utopic ;),
    > >     > > does not change anything, since Browser vendors are closing
    > plugin
    > > doors.
    > >     > > So even in that case, it continue to be a death end.
    > >     > >
    > >     > > I think Apache Royale is this days in a very good shape, and is
    > > better
    > >     > > each day... so I maybe people should give a try and consider it
    > as
    > > an
    > >     > > option for the future.
    > >     > >
    > >     > > Thanks
    > >     > >
    > >     > > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:04, Paul Stearns ()
    > >     > > escribió:
    > >     > >
    > >     > >> Has Adobe stopped supporting it, and has not turned it over to
    > > Apache?
    > >     > >> Now that is just unconscionable.
    > >     > >>
    > >     > >> Paul R. Stearns
    > >     > >> Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
    > >     > >>
    > >     > >> 15280 NW 79th Ct.
    > >     > >> Suite 250
    > >     > >> Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
    > >     > >>
    > >     > >> Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
    > >     > >> Fax: (305)623-4588
    > >     > >>
    > >     > >> ----------------------------------------
    > >     > >> From: Carlos Rovira
    > >     > >> Sent: 3/9/20 1:28 PM
    > >     > >> To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
    > >     > >> Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
    > >     > >> Hi Paul,
    > >     > >>
    > >     > >> not bad idea, but don't know a browser that will support Flash,
    > > and the
    > >     > >> problem is Adobe is stopping supporting flash player as a
    > plugin,
    > > so I'm
    > >     > >> afraid that's not possible.
    > >     > >>
    > >     > >> El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 17:40, Paul Stearns ()
    > >     > >> escribió:
    > >     > >>
    > >     > >> > Better yet, how about supporting a browser whose main feature
    > > is the
    > >     > >> > support of Flex?
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >> > My applications are 99.9% flex. The main things I use the
    > > browser for
    > >     > is
    > >     > >> > application deployment, file upload/download and displaying
    > PDF
    > >     > files..
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >> > Paul R. Stearns
    > >     > >> > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >> > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
    > >     > >> > Suite 250
    > >     > >> > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >> > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
    > >     > >> > Fax: (305)623-4588
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >> > ----------------------------------------
    > >     > >> > From: Carlos Rovira
    > >     > >> > Sent: 3/9/20 10:09 AM
    > >     > >> > To: [hidden email]
    > >     > >> > Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
    > >     > >> > Hi Andrew,
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >> > When Dec, 31th arrives, Flex will be out of browsers, so just
    > > allowed
    > >     > >> using
    > >     > >> > AIR. Maybe AIR could have an option to bundle Apache Flex with
    > > each
    > >     > >> version
    > >     > >> > that ensures all work right. I mean, in 2021, Apache Flex will
    > > not
    > >     > have
    > >     > >> > sense with AIR right? so why not to think in something that
    > > ease even
    > >     > >> more
    > >     > >> > AIR+Flex marriage? Of course a version without Flex should
    > have
    > > sense
    > >     > >> too
    > >     > >> > for people that does not use Flex at all.
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >> > Make that sense?
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >> > Thanks
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >> > Carlos
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >> > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 14:45, Frost, Andrew ()
    > >     > >> > escribió:
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >> > > Hi
    > >     > >> > >
    > >     > >> > > We'd be happy to add things like this geometry API change -
    > > but it's
    > >     > >> then
    > >     > >> > > going to be version-dependent so it would need to be
    > compiled
    > >     > against
    > >     > >> the
    > >     > >> > > later AIR SDK and would only run on the later AIR runtime..
    > >     > >> > >
    > >     > >> > > I'm not sure whether there are other changes that would
    > really
    > >     > impact
    > >     > >> the
    > >     > >> > > Flex SDK itself. So perhaps we can consider these on a
    > > case-by-case
    > >     > >> > basis.
    > >     > >> > >
    > >     > >> > > The one thing I keep coming back to though, is that it seems
    > > to be a
    > >     > >> very
    > >     > >> > > painful process for (a) people to download and start using a
    > > new AIR
    > >     > >> SDK,
    > >     > >> > > and (b) people who then have to combine a Flex SDK with an
    > > AIR SDK!
    > >     > >> So we
    > >     > >> > > should perhaps address this in the first instance (and from
    > > our QA
    > >     > >> folk,
    > >     > >> > > having a simple way to ensure you get back to a clean
    > version
    > > of
    > >     > >> one/both
    > >     > >> > > of these SDKs would be good too!)
    > >     > >> > >
    > >     > >> > > Any other thoughts on missing features or things that would
    > be
    > >     > useful,
    > >     > >> > > please send them in!
    > >     > >> > >
    > >     > >> > > thanks
    > >     > >> > >
    > >     > >> > > Andrew
    > >     > >> > >
    > >     > >> > >
    > >     > >> > > -----Original Message-----
    > >     > >> > > From: Piotr Zarzycki
    > >     > >> > > Sent: 09 March 2020 13:01
    > >     > >> > > To: [hidden email]
    > >     > >> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
    > >     > >> > >
    > >     > >> > > Hi Andrew,
    > >     > >> > >
    > >     > >> > > This kind of situation may occur more often in the future if
    > > Air
    > >     > would
    > >     > >> > > have more and more features. Is there any plan to someone
    > > from your
    > >     > >> Team
    > >     > >> > > simply add missing stuff to Flex? Any thoughts on this
    > > approach?
    > >     > >> > >
    > >     > >> > > Thanks,
    > >     > >> > > Piotr
    > >     > >> > >
    > >     > >> > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020, 1:49 PM Frost, Andrew
    > >     > >> > > wrote:
    > >     > >> > >
    > >     > >> > > > Hi Olaf
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >> > > > > I think it would be nice if any AIR updates would be
    > > compatible
    > >     > >> with
    > >     > >> > > > > the
    > >     > >> > > > latest Flex SDK
    > >     > >> > > > Yes completely agree, this was an error on our part to not
    > >     > consider
    > >     > >> > > > the fact that overrides of the APIs that we were changing
    > > would
    > >     > have
    > >     > >> > > > been affected. The changes were reverted, and we have
    > >     > re-implemented
    > >     > >> > > > the new functionality within additional APIs/methods so
    > that
    > >     > >> existing
    > >     > >> > > > apps will now compile/run without any changes on the
    > > 33.1.1.63
    > >     > >> release.
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >> > > > We definitely intend that there is still full
    > compatibility
    > >     > between
    > >     > >> > > > Flex and any changes we make with AIR.. so thanks to
    > > leokan23 and
    > >     > >> Alex
    > >     > >> > > > for bringing this to our attention!
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >> > > > thanks
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >> > > > Andrew
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >> > > > -----Original Message-----
    > >     > >> > > > From: Olaf Krueger
    > >     > >> > > > Sent: 06 March 2020 20:30
    > >     > >> > > > To: [hidden email]
    > >     > >> > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >> > > > Hi,
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >> > > > I didn't follow the entire discussion, but I'd like to
    > > mention
    > >     > that
    > >     > >> I
    > >     > >> > > > am not sure if we still have enough volunteers which are
    > > willing
    > >     > to
    > >     > >> > > > work on a new Flex release.
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >> > > > That said, I think it would be nice if any AIR updates
    > > would be
    > >     > >> > > > compatible with the latest Flex SDK... as long as it's
    > > possible.
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >> > > > Thanks,
    > >     > >> > > > Olaf
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >> > > > --
    > >     > >> > > > Sent from:
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >>
    > >
    > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3T23VtMr4Dz6j6DqBbgaf5T7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909967487&amp;sdata=PPT98XHeRJSRW1aLzQtHGxHjJs61ySTvv4JD4nm7huI%3D&amp;reserved=0
    > >     > >> > > > %2Fapache-flex-users.2333346.n4.nabble.com%2F
    > >     > >> > > >
    > >     > >> > >
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >> > --
    > >     > >> > Carlos Rovira
    > >     > >> >
    > >
    > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909977480&amp;sdata=abbnnGVvfDmr4a2gq6vSl%2FR2JYKY8jRm%2F%2FeUKXSLH70%3D&amp;reserved=0
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >> >
    > >     > >>
    > >     > >> --
    > >     > >> Carlos Rovira
    > >     > >>
    > >
    > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909977480&amp;sdata=abbnnGVvfDmr4a2gq6vSl%2FR2JYKY8jRm%2F%2FeUKXSLH70%3D&amp;reserved=0
    > >     > >>
    > >     > >>
    > >     > >>
    > >     > >
    > >     > > --
    > >     > > Carlos Rovira
    > >     > >
    > >
    > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909977480&amp;sdata=abbnnGVvfDmr4a2gq6vSl%2FR2JYKY8jRm%2F%2FeUKXSLH70%3D&amp;reserved=0
    > >     > >
    > >     > >
    > >     >
    > >     > --
    > >     > Carlos Rovira
    > >     >
    > >
    > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909977480&amp;sdata=abbnnGVvfDmr4a2gq6vSl%2FR2JYKY8jRm%2F%2FeUKXSLH70%3D&amp;reserved=0
    > >     >
    > >     >
    > >     >
    > >
    > >     --
    > >     Carlos Rovira
    > >
    > >
    > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909977480&amp;sdata=abbnnGVvfDmr4a2gq6vSl%2FR2JYKY8jRm%2F%2FeUKXSLH70%3D&amp;reserved=0
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    > --
    > Carlos Rovira
    > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909977480&amp;sdata=abbnnGVvfDmr4a2gq6vSl%2FR2JYKY8jRm%2F%2FeUKXSLH70%3D&amp;reserved=0
    >
   
   
    --
   
    Piotr Zarzycki
   
    Patreon: *https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909977480&amp;sdata=mHnmiXbmFTFifs5WwXP8cBCZ8yrOtAML30YdrjoYiLs%3D&amp;reserved=0
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Re: GUI IDE need.

piotrz
Hi Alex,

We have different plan. We have currently Visual Editor which as part of
Moonshine IDE output Flex and PrimeFaces code, so it would be continuation
of that idea - the difference would be that we output Jewel Royale mxml
code.

wt., 10 mar 2020 o 16:39 Alex Harui <[hidden email]> napisał(a):

> Sounds exciting.  Hopefully the GUI editor will use a browser as the
> renderer and be more like live-editing than trying to emulate the browser
> DOM.
>
> Of course, I could be wrong...
>
> -Alex
>
> On 3/10/20, 4:39 AM, "Piotr Zarzycki" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>     Hi Guys,
>
>     We have plan to add simple GUI IDE to Moonshine which outputs Royale
> Jewel
>     type of applications. Be patience and observer Moonshine IDE on
> GitHub. ;)
>
>     Thanks,
>     Piotr
>
>     wt., 10 mar 2020 o 11:05 Carlos Rovira <[hidden email]>
> napisał(a):
>
>     > Hi Paul,
>     >
>     > the example you posted is easy to do nowadays with current Royale in
>     > development branch. You can take a try with Jewel or emulation
> components.
>     > You'll be surprised of how far Royale is this days :).
>     >
>     > Best
>     >
>     > Carlos
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > El mar., 10 mar. 2020 a las 5:28, Alex Harui
> (<[hidden email]>)
>     > escribió:
>     >
>     > > While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale,
> there
>     > > is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and
> one that
>     > > wasn't possible with Flash Player.
>     > >
>     > > IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to
> edit
>     > > the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results
> in the
>     > > browser.
>     > >
>     > > The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML
> from the
>     > > browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit
> some
>     > > button that will then update the MXML.
>     > >
>     > > There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none
> are
>     > > available at this time.  The main one is that use of view states
> greatly
>     > > complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well).
> So one
>     > > question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
>     > >
>     > > -Alex
>     > >
>     > > On 3/9/20, 8:26 PM, "Paul Stearns" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>     > >
>     > >     Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger
> modules
>     > has
>     > > 1,390 lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29
> enterable
>     > > "fields" another tab has over 50 enterable fields.
>     > >
>     > >     Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the
> type of
>     > > data entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best
> without
>     > > using a GUI editor. If you are designing traditional web
> applications
>     > where
>     > > everything is stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you
> can do
>     > that
>     > > without a GUI IDE. If however you want to design highly usable
> business
>     > > applications deployed to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase)
> you need
>     > > GUI tools to be productive.
>     > >
>     > >     My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can
> be found
>     > > here, be sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as
>     > expected,
>     > > let me know, no data is stored)
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >
>     >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.yozyo.net%2FTestModule%2Fbin-release%2FMain.html%3Ftest%3D123&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909967487&amp;sdata=9FwboMWcAlwGX7FtsA8q6%2B1Fb1L1obsoI7VS8ONISCA%3D&amp;reserved=0
>     > >
>     > >     Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with
> x/y
>     > > placement of items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.
>     > >
>     > >     Paul R. Stearns
>     > >     Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
>     > >
>     > >     15280 NW 79th Ct.
>     > >     Suite 250
>     > >     Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
>     > >
>     > >     Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
>     > >     Fax: (305)623-4588
>     > >
>     > >     ----------------------------------------
>     > >     From: Carlos Rovira <[hidden email]>
>     > >     Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
>     > >     To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns <[hidden email]>
>     > >     Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
>     > >     Hi Paul,
>     > >
>     > >     many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that
> reason I
>     > >     started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash
> and AMF
>     > in
>     > >     early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC
> (someone
>     > >     remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just
> needed. That
>     > > was
>     > >     very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that
> time.
>     > >
>     > >     Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode
> in
>     > Flash
>     > > and
>     > >     Royale is the current Flex. So it's clear that you don't need
> to go
>     > > very
>     > >     "low level", but if you needed, you can do it! (and that's
> good). But
>     > >     Royale should allow you to develop without the need to go that
> route.
>     > > and
>     > >     just use good proven patterns like Flex did. We're working
> towards
>     > >     that...and I think we're already got it. :)
>     > >
>     > >     About GUI IDE, although I think is something very cool to have
>     > > something
>     > >     like that, I abandoned that kind of tools many years ago.
> Maybe in
>     > the
>     > >     future I could be working in something like that, just for
> pleasure,
>     > > but
>     > >     for now there's still many work to do in Royale in things more
>     > needed.
>     > >     Maybe others could drive that effort... But I really think the
>     > current
>     > >     Royale coding is very straight forward to do. As well examples
> like
>     > > Tour De
>     > >     Jewel has a lot of code to see how things should be used and
> learn
>     > > from it
>     > >     a lot of good practices.
>     > >
>     > >     El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 22:48, Paul Stearns ()
>     > >     escribió:
>     > >
>     > >     > What attracted me to Flex initially was that it ran in its
> own
>     > >     > environment, completely separate from the html, web browser
> and
>     > their
>     > >     > multitude of DOMs. I used to write apps in ASP/HTML, and
> every
>     > other
>     > > week a
>     > >     > new version of a browser would break something.
>     > >     >
>     > >     > For the type of applications I write & support, having a GUI
> IDE, a
>     > >     > defined language (like as3 & mxml) and an engine which which
>     > provides
>     > >     > consistent results across platforms are the most important
>     > features.
>     > > At
>     > >     > this point the weakness I see in Royale is there isn't a GUI
> IDE,
>     > > and since
>     > >     > it doesn't have its own engine, it relies on the
> vicissitudes of
>     > > javascript
>     > >     > and how the particular browser it is running in implements
> its DOM.
>     > >     >
>     > >     > This is why I shied away from .NET, and PHP in the past
> except for
>     > > more
>     > >     > traditional websites with a bit of user interaction.
> Javascript
>     > > frameworks
>     > >     > just hide the ugliness, they don't make it go away.
>     > >     >
>     > >     > Having said all of the above, I am taking a chance on Royale
> to see
>     > > what
>     > >     > the level of effort will be to convert to it.
>     > >     >
>     > >     > Paul R. Stearns
>     > >     > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
>     > >     >
>     > >     > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
>     > >     > Suite 250
>     > >     > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
>     > >     >
>     > >     > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
>     > >     > Fax: (305)623-4588
>     > >     >
>     > >     > ----------------------------------------
>     > >     > From: Carlos Rovira
>     > >     > Sent: 3/9/20 4:55 PM
>     > >     > To: Paul Stearns
>     > >     > Cc: [hidden email]
>     > >     > Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
>     > >     > Hi Paul,
>     > >     >
>     > >     > I suppose you refer to Java Applets, hope other could give
> more
>     > info
>     > > about
>     > >     > this, but although you're in part right, I think Flash
> Player is
>     > > more well
>     > >     > integrated in Browsers and Applets never had the power of
> Flash.
>     > But
>     > > it's
>     > >     > ok, you can enable in browsers... anyway, we 're in 2020 and
> seems
>     > > things
>     > >     > will continue its course, so nothing we can do to revert
> that.
>     > >     >
>     > >     > I always be a great advocate of the Flash platform, but I
> found in
>     > > Royale
>     > >     > something better that what we had with Flash. IMHO, we have
> the
>     > best
>     > > of
>     > >     > both worlds. From Flex/Flash I wanted the "development
>     > productivity",
>     > >     > languages (AS3, MXML), compiler, AMF, and many other things.
> From
>     > > web I
>     > >     > always liked things like CSS (that's far superior than what
> we had
>     > > in Flex
>     > >     > for sure), and the fact that we are not constraint to a
> plugin and
>     > a
>     > >     > sandbox, so it's more easy to do things for the web.
>     > >     >
>     > >     > We have both combined now in Royale, and that's for me
> amazing. As
>     > > we get
>     > >     > components with clear API definitions, and access to latest
>     > browsers
>     > >     > features, we are getting the same productivity that we had
> in Flex,
>     > > and as
>     > >     > well we are removing the complexity in Browsers where you
> need to
>     > > test in
>     > >     > each browsers or lost time solving browser compatibility
> problems.
>     > We
>     > >     > finally can have things like IoC (Inversion of Control), DI
>     > > (Dependency
>     > >     > Injection), Metadata, MXML, Routing (Deep Linking),
> LocalStorage
>     > > (like old
>     > >     > Local SharedObject), just to name a few.
>     > >     >
>     > >     > But even more, since the bead/strand Arquitecture is really
>     > > powerful, and
>     > >     > Apps build with royale are more easy to build that even was
> in
>     > > Royale. And
>     > >     > the most important: Performance: The apps built with Royale
> has an
>     > >     > outstanding performance. Apps migrated from Flex use to be
> many XX%
>     > > faster
>     > >     > in Royale.
>     > >     >
>     > >     > I must say, I'm very happy with what we're getting with
> Apache
>     > > Royale :)
>     > >     >
>     > >     > Carlos
>     > >     >
>     > >     > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:46, Paul Stearns ()
>     > >     > escribió:
>     > >     >
>     > >     > > I am investing Royale, but haven't seen any results yet.
>     > >     > >
>     > >     > > I am showing my ignorance here, but, my confusion is, will
> Java
>     > > still be
>     > >     > > deployable via web browsers? If so, what is the difference
>     > between
>     > > using
>     > >     > a
>     > >     > > web browser to deploy a Java app, and a Flash app?
>     > >     > >
>     > >     > > Why couldn't Adobe/Harmon changed Flash to use the
> methodology
>     > > Flash uses
>     > >     > > for deployment?
>     > >     > >
>     > >     > > Paul R. Stearns
>     > >     > > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
>     > >     > >
>     > >     > > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
>     > >     > > Suite 250
>     > >     > > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
>     > >     > >
>     > >     > > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
>     > >     > > Fax: (305)623-4588
>     > >     > >
>     > >     > > ------------------------------
>     > >     > > *From*: Carlos Rovira
>     > >     > > *Sent*: 3/9/20 3:31 PM
>     > >     > > *To*: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
>     > >     > > *Subject*: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
>     > >     > > Hi Paul,
>     > >     > >
>     > >     > > must say don't know what's the actual support of Adobe for
> Flash
>     > > Player,
>     > >     > > or if it will left to Harman as part of the AIR deal, maybe
>     > Andrew
>     > > can
>     > >     > give
>     > >     > > some light on this. Since Flash will be just present on
> AIR, and
>     > > not in
>     > >     > any
>     > >     > > other place, that could have sense. But that will mean more
>     > > maintenance
>     > >     > > effort and people needed by Harman.
>     > >     > >
>     > >     > > Anyway, donating to Apache has no sense at all, since Flash
>     > Player
>     > > has
>     > >     > > many licensed closed source parts that can't be open
> source, or
>     > at
>     > > least
>     > >     > > that's what they always says. But again...donating Flash
> Player
>     > and
>     > >     > making
>     > >     > > it OS, if it could be something doable at some point
> (let's go
>     > > utopic ;),
>     > >     > > does not change anything, since Browser vendors are closing
>     > plugin
>     > > doors.
>     > >     > > So even in that case, it continue to be a death end.
>     > >     > >
>     > >     > > I think Apache Royale is this days in a very good shape,
> and is
>     > > better
>     > >     > > each day... so I maybe people should give a try and
> consider it
>     > as
>     > > an
>     > >     > > option for the future.
>     > >     > >
>     > >     > > Thanks
>     > >     > >
>     > >     > > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 20:04, Paul Stearns ()
>     > >     > > escribió:
>     > >     > >
>     > >     > >> Has Adobe stopped supporting it, and has not turned it
> over to
>     > > Apache?
>     > >     > >> Now that is just unconscionable.
>     > >     > >>
>     > >     > >> Paul R. Stearns
>     > >     > >> Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
>     > >     > >>
>     > >     > >> 15280 NW 79th Ct.
>     > >     > >> Suite 250
>     > >     > >> Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
>     > >     > >>
>     > >     > >> Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
>     > >     > >> Fax: (305)623-4588
>     > >     > >>
>     > >     > >> ----------------------------------------
>     > >     > >> From: Carlos Rovira
>     > >     > >> Sent: 3/9/20 1:28 PM
>     > >     > >> To: [hidden email], Paul Stearns
>     > >     > >> Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
>     > >     > >> Hi Paul,
>     > >     > >>
>     > >     > >> not bad idea, but don't know a browser that will support
> Flash,
>     > > and the
>     > >     > >> problem is Adobe is stopping supporting flash player as a
>     > plugin,
>     > > so I'm
>     > >     > >> afraid that's not possible.
>     > >     > >>
>     > >     > >> El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 17:40, Paul Stearns ()
>     > >     > >> escribió:
>     > >     > >>
>     > >     > >> > Better yet, how about supporting a browser whose main
> feature
>     > > is the
>     > >     > >> > support of Flex?
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >> > My applications are 99.9% flex. The main things I use
> the
>     > > browser for
>     > >     > is
>     > >     > >> > application deployment, file upload/download and
> displaying
>     > PDF
>     > >     > files..
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >> > Paul R. Stearns
>     > >     > >> > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >> > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
>     > >     > >> > Suite 250
>     > >     > >> > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >> > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
>     > >     > >> > Fax: (305)623-4588
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >> > ----------------------------------------
>     > >     > >> > From: Carlos Rovira
>     > >     > >> > Sent: 3/9/20 10:09 AM
>     > >     > >> > To: [hidden email]
>     > >     > >> > Subject: Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
>     > >     > >> > Hi Andrew,
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >> > When Dec, 31th arrives, Flex will be out of browsers,
> so just
>     > > allowed
>     > >     > >> using
>     > >     > >> > AIR. Maybe AIR could have an option to bundle Apache
> Flex with
>     > > each
>     > >     > >> version
>     > >     > >> > that ensures all work right. I mean, in 2021, Apache
> Flex will
>     > > not
>     > >     > have
>     > >     > >> > sense with AIR right? so why not to think in something
> that
>     > > ease even
>     > >     > >> more
>     > >     > >> > AIR+Flex marriage? Of course a version without Flex
> should
>     > have
>     > > sense
>     > >     > >> too
>     > >     > >> > for people that does not use Flex at all.
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >> > Make that sense?
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >> > Thanks
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >> > Carlos
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >> > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 14:45, Frost, Andrew ()
>     > >     > >> > escribió:
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >> > > Hi
>     > >     > >> > >
>     > >     > >> > > We'd be happy to add things like this geometry API
> change -
>     > > but it's
>     > >     > >> then
>     > >     > >> > > going to be version-dependent so it would need to be
>     > compiled
>     > >     > against
>     > >     > >> the
>     > >     > >> > > later AIR SDK and would only run on the later AIR
> runtime..
>     > >     > >> > >
>     > >     > >> > > I'm not sure whether there are other changes that
> would
>     > really
>     > >     > impact
>     > >     > >> the
>     > >     > >> > > Flex SDK itself. So perhaps we can consider these on a
>     > > case-by-case
>     > >     > >> > basis.
>     > >     > >> > >
>     > >     > >> > > The one thing I keep coming back to though, is that
> it seems
>     > > to be a
>     > >     > >> very
>     > >     > >> > > painful process for (a) people to download and start
> using a
>     > > new AIR
>     > >     > >> SDK,
>     > >     > >> > > and (b) people who then have to combine a Flex SDK
> with an
>     > > AIR SDK!
>     > >     > >> So we
>     > >     > >> > > should perhaps address this in the first instance
> (and from
>     > > our QA
>     > >     > >> folk,
>     > >     > >> > > having a simple way to ensure you get back to a clean
>     > version
>     > > of
>     > >     > >> one/both
>     > >     > >> > > of these SDKs would be good too!)
>     > >     > >> > >
>     > >     > >> > > Any other thoughts on missing features or things that
> would
>     > be
>     > >     > useful,
>     > >     > >> > > please send them in!
>     > >     > >> > >
>     > >     > >> > > thanks
>     > >     > >> > >
>     > >     > >> > > Andrew
>     > >     > >> > >
>     > >     > >> > >
>     > >     > >> > > -----Original Message-----
>     > >     > >> > > From: Piotr Zarzycki
>     > >     > >> > > Sent: 09 March 2020 13:01
>     > >     > >> > > To: [hidden email]
>     > >     > >> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for
> AIR33.1?
>     > >     > >> > >
>     > >     > >> > > Hi Andrew,
>     > >     > >> > >
>     > >     > >> > > This kind of situation may occur more often in the
> future if
>     > > Air
>     > >     > would
>     > >     > >> > > have more and more features. Is there any plan to
> someone
>     > > from your
>     > >     > >> Team
>     > >     > >> > > simply add missing stuff to Flex? Any thoughts on this
>     > > approach?
>     > >     > >> > >
>     > >     > >> > > Thanks,
>     > >     > >> > > Piotr
>     > >     > >> > >
>     > >     > >> > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020, 1:49 PM Frost, Andrew
>     > >     > >> > > wrote:
>     > >     > >> > >
>     > >     > >> > > > Hi Olaf
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >> > > > > I think it would be nice if any AIR updates would
> be
>     > > compatible
>     > >     > >> with
>     > >     > >> > > > > the
>     > >     > >> > > > latest Flex SDK
>     > >     > >> > > > Yes completely agree, this was an error on our part
> to not
>     > >     > consider
>     > >     > >> > > > the fact that overrides of the APIs that we were
> changing
>     > > would
>     > >     > have
>     > >     > >> > > > been affected. The changes were reverted, and we
> have
>     > >     > re-implemented
>     > >     > >> > > > the new functionality within additional
> APIs/methods so
>     > that
>     > >     > >> existing
>     > >     > >> > > > apps will now compile/run without any changes on the
>     > > 33.1.1.63
>     > >     > >> release.
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >> > > > We definitely intend that there is still full
>     > compatibility
>     > >     > between
>     > >     > >> > > > Flex and any changes we make with AIR.. so thanks to
>     > > leokan23 and
>     > >     > >> Alex
>     > >     > >> > > > for bringing this to our attention!
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >> > > > thanks
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >> > > > Andrew
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >> > > > -----Original Message-----
>     > >     > >> > > > From: Olaf Krueger
>     > >     > >> > > > Sent: 06 March 2020 20:30
>     > >     > >> > > > To: [hidden email]
>     > >     > >> > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Flex 4.16.1 broken for
> AIR33.1?
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >> > > > Hi,
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >> > > > I didn't follow the entire discussion, but I'd like
> to
>     > > mention
>     > >     > that
>     > >     > >> I
>     > >     > >> > > > am not sure if we still have enough volunteers
> which are
>     > > willing
>     > >     > to
>     > >     > >> > > > work on a new Flex release.
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >> > > > That said, I think it would be nice if any AIR
> updates
>     > > would be
>     > >     > >> > > > compatible with the latest Flex SDK... as long as
> it's
>     > > possible.
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >> > > > Thanks,
>     > >     > >> > > > Olaf
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >> > > > --
>     > >     > >> > > > Sent from:
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >>
>     > >
>     >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fclicktime.symantec.com%2F3T23VtMr4Dz6j6DqBbgaf5T7Vc%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909967487&amp;sdata=PPT98XHeRJSRW1aLzQtHGxHjJs61ySTvv4JD4nm7huI%3D&amp;reserved=0
>     > >     > >> > > > %2Fapache-flex-users.2333346.n4.nabble.com%2F
>     > >     > >> > > >
>     > >     > >> > >
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >> > --
>     > >     > >> > Carlos Rovira
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >
>     >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909977480&amp;sdata=abbnnGVvfDmr4a2gq6vSl%2FR2JYKY8jRm%2F%2FeUKXSLH70%3D&amp;reserved=0
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >> >
>     > >     > >>
>     > >     > >> --
>     > >     > >> Carlos Rovira
>     > >     > >>
>     > >
>     >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909977480&amp;sdata=abbnnGVvfDmr4a2gq6vSl%2FR2JYKY8jRm%2F%2FeUKXSLH70%3D&amp;reserved=0
>     > >     > >>
>     > >     > >>
>     > >     > >>
>     > >     > >
>     > >     > > --
>     > >     > > Carlos Rovira
>     > >     > >
>     > >
>     >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909977480&amp;sdata=abbnnGVvfDmr4a2gq6vSl%2FR2JYKY8jRm%2F%2FeUKXSLH70%3D&amp;reserved=0
>     > >     > >
>     > >     > >
>     > >     >
>     > >     > --
>     > >     > Carlos Rovira
>     > >     >
>     > >
>     >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909977480&amp;sdata=abbnnGVvfDmr4a2gq6vSl%2FR2JYKY8jRm%2F%2FeUKXSLH70%3D&amp;reserved=0
>     > >     >
>     > >     >
>     > >     >
>     > >
>     > >     --
>     > >     Carlos Rovira
>     > >
>     > >
>     >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909977480&amp;sdata=abbnnGVvfDmr4a2gq6vSl%2FR2JYKY8jRm%2F%2FeUKXSLH70%3D&amp;reserved=0
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Carlos Rovira
>     >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909977480&amp;sdata=abbnnGVvfDmr4a2gq6vSl%2FR2JYKY8jRm%2F%2FeUKXSLH70%3D&amp;reserved=0
>     >
>
>
>     --
>
>     Piotr Zarzycki
>
>     Patreon: *
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>     <
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> >*
>
>
>

--

Piotr Zarzycki

Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki
<https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>*
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Re: GUI IDE need.

Olaf Krueger
In reply to this post by Paul Stearns
Hi Paul,

>If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
productive.

Not agree.
Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.


>If you are designing traditional web applications where everything is
stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do that without a GUI
IDE.

I think these days it is is more a design/UX decison if you go with a "one
page scroll" approach.
Nobody stops you from implementing complex UIs using HTML/CSS/JS.

JS frameworks (including Royale) are "component driven" like Flex.
So, breaking down complex apps into reusable components has become the
standard in web development.


>My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be found
here...

As Carlos mentioned, I guess you should be able to implement this by using
Royale/Jewel or any other JS framework out there.
But with Flex, we were used to had anything (or most of the things) we need
within the SDK.
With JS development (including Royale) you might want to use 3rd party (UI)
libaries in order to increase quality and productivity.


Just my 2 cents,
Olaf























--
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Re: GUI IDE need.

Alex Harui-2


On 3/11/20, 4:43 AM, "Olaf Krueger" <[hidden email]> wrote:

    Hi Paul,
   
    >If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
    to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
    productive.
   
    Not agree.
    Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
    means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
    change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
    takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
    instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.
   
Hence my hope that someone will make live-editing of Royale MXML work.  IMO, Any IDE DesignView equivalent that doesn't use a browser to render is going to have fidelity issues.  Live-editing has the potential to be even better than hot-reload for some scenarios.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex    

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Re: GUI IDE need.

Paul Stearns
In reply to this post by Paul Stearns
I think we will have to disagree on this.

Three things (that I can think of quickly), which would be difficult without a GUI;

I use quite regularly the alignment capabilities of the IDE, where I select multiple items and align right, left, bottom, middle , top & center. If I have 20 fields on a form I want to align I can't do it visually using the immediate display technique. Additionally when I am initially designing my form, the code may not be complete enough to be displayed in a browser.

I will also often grab multiple items and move them around the screen, with their relative positions intact.

Selecting multiple items and then modifying multiple properties for the selected items.

Doing all of this manually is a waste of valuable developers time, and a step back into the dark ages. Yes having something that displays your changes in near real-time is better than nothing, but hardly a replacement for a good GUI IDE.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588

----------------------------------------
From: Alex Harui <[hidden email]>
Sent: 3/11/20 11:19 AM
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.

On 3/11/20, 4:43 AM, "Olaf Krueger" wrote:

Hi Paul,

>If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
productive.

Not agree.
Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.

Hence my hope that someone will make live-editing of Royale MXML work. IMO, Any IDE DesignView equivalent that doesn't use a browser to render is going to have fidelity issues. Live-editing has the potential to be even better than hot-reload for some scenarios.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex


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Re: GUI IDE need.

Alex Harui-2
I hear what you are saying, but I am hopeful that we can build that into your app sort of like an automated testing plugin.  Royale will eventually need to support other automated testing libraries and other code that "disappears at production".  One of the reasons for having "beads" underneath the components is so that we can more easily add/remove helpful pieces of code to enhance productivity.

IIRC, the FB DV was essentially running your app loaded into a DV Flex app.  I am hopeful that Royale is set up so that you can essentially plug in DV functionality into your app (instead of wrapping it, which caused occasional issues in FB).

-Alex

On 3/11/20, 8:48 AM, "Paul Stearns" <[hidden email]> wrote:

    I think we will have to disagree on this.
   
    Three things (that I can think of quickly), which would be difficult without a GUI;
   
    I use quite regularly the alignment capabilities of the IDE, where I select multiple items and align right, left, bottom, middle , top & center. If I have 20 fields on a form I want to align I can't do it visually using the immediate display technique. Additionally when I am initially designing my form, the code may not be complete enough to be displayed in a browser.
   
    I will also often grab multiple items and move them around the screen, with their relative positions intact.
   
    Selecting multiple items and then modifying multiple properties for the selected items.
   
    Doing all of this manually is a waste of valuable developers time, and a step back into the dark ages. Yes having something that displays your changes in near real-time is better than nothing, but hardly a replacement for a good GUI IDE.
   
    Paul R. Stearns
    Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
   
    15280 NW 79th Ct.
    Suite 250
    Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
   
    Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
    Fax: (305)623-4588
   
    ----------------------------------------
    From: Alex Harui <[hidden email]>
    Sent: 3/11/20 11:19 AM
    To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
    Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.
   
    On 3/11/20, 4:43 AM, "Olaf Krueger" wrote:
   
    Hi Paul,
   
    >If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
    to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
    productive.
   
    Not agree.
    Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
    means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
    change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
    takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
    instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.
   
    Hence my hope that someone will make live-editing of Royale MXML work. IMO, Any IDE DesignView equivalent that doesn't use a browser to render is going to have fidelity issues. Live-editing has the potential to be even better than hot-reload for some scenarios.
   
    Of course, I could be wrong...
    -Alex
   
   
   

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Re: GUI IDE need.

Hans Nuecke
In reply to this post by Paul Stearns
One little remark/experience from my side as kind of argument against
pure live-editing and hot-reload:
There is high risk you get in a "try and error mode"; without spending
sufficient time on thinking!

Several times it happened to me that I ran in a "change-test-change"
loop for about an hour, always thinking "now I got it".
But after a walk to the restrooms, or even better: a night of sleep, and
digesting things and spending some time on thinking... The solution was
there within minutes.

At the end: Nothing is black and white ;-)
Regards

Hans


Am 11.03.2020 um 16:47 schrieb Paul Stearns:

> I think we will have to disagree on this.
>
> Three things (that I can think of quickly), which would be difficult without a GUI;
>
> I use quite regularly the alignment capabilities of the IDE, where I select multiple items and align right, left, bottom, middle , top & center. If I have 20 fields on a form I want to align I can't do it visually using the immediate display technique. Additionally when I am initially designing my form, the code may not be complete enough to be displayed in a browser.
>
> I will also often grab multiple items and move them around the screen, with their relative positions intact.
>
> Selecting multiple items and then modifying multiple properties for the selected items.
>
> Doing all of this manually is a waste of valuable developers time, and a step back into the dark ages. Yes having something that displays your changes in near real-time is better than nothing, but hardly a replacement for a good GUI IDE.
>
> Paul R. Stearns
> Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
>
> 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> Suite 250
> Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
>
> Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> Fax: (305)623-4588
>
> ----------------------------------------
> From: Alex Harui <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 3/11/20 11:19 AM
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.
>
> On 3/11/20, 4:43 AM, "Olaf Krueger" wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
>> If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
> to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
> productive.
>
> Not agree.
> Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
> means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
> change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
> takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
> instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.
>
> Hence my hope that someone will make live-editing of Royale MXML work. IMO, Any IDE DesignView equivalent that doesn't use a browser to render is going to have fidelity issues. Live-editing has the potential to be even better than hot-reload for some scenarios.
>
> Of course, I could be wrong...
> -Alex

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Re: GUI IDE need.

Paul Stearns
In reply to this post by Paul Stearns
Alex:

Not to sound too ignorant, what is "FB DV?"

What is Adobe doing with FlashBuilder? If they are deprecating Flash, what use do they have for FlashBuilder? That might be a good code base for a Royale GUI IDE.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588

----------------------------------------
From: Alex Harui <[hidden email]>
Sent: 3/11/20 11:56 AM
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.
I hear what you are saying, but I am hopeful that we can build that into your app sort of like an automated testing plugin. Royale will eventually need to support other automated testing libraries and other code that "disappears at production". One of the reasons for having "beads" underneath the components is so that we can more easily add/remove helpful pieces of code to enhance productivity.

IIRC, the FB DV was essentially running your app loaded into a DV Flex app. I am hopeful that Royale is set up so that you can essentially plug in DV functionality into your app (instead of wrapping it, which caused occasional issues in FB).

-Alex

On 3/11/20, 8:48 AM, "Paul Stearns" wrote:

I think we will have to disagree on this.

Three things (that I can think of quickly), which would be difficult without a GUI;

I use quite regularly the alignment capabilities of the IDE, where I select multiple items and align right, left, bottom, middle , top & center. If I have 20 fields on a form I want to align I can't do it visually using the immediate display technique. Additionally when I am initially designing my form, the code may not be complete enough to be displayed in a browser.

I will also often grab multiple items and move them around the screen, with their relative positions intact.

Selecting multiple items and then modifying multiple properties for the selected items.

Doing all of this manually is a waste of valuable developers time, and a step back into the dark ages. Yes having something that displays your changes in near real-time is better than nothing, but hardly a replacement for a good GUI IDE.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588

----------------------------------------
From: Alex Harui
Sent: 3/11/20 11:19 AM
To: "[hidden email]"
Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.

On 3/11/20, 4:43 AM, "Olaf Krueger" wrote:

Hi Paul,

>If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
productive.

Not agree.
Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.

Hence my hope that someone will make live-editing of Royale MXML work. IMO, Any IDE DesignView equivalent that doesn't use a browser to render is going to have fidelity issues. Live-editing has the potential to be even better than hot-reload for some scenarios.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex


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Re: GUI IDE need.

Alex Harui-2
FB DV is Flash Builder Design View.  I don't think there is much FB code that is useful to the current teams building a Royale IDE.  I don't know what the future of FB is, but I don't think there will be future releases.

But some of the principles behind FB's DV, could be applied to live-editing in Royale and I think it would be better than having it in an IDE.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex

On 3/11/20, 10:04 AM, "Paul Stearns" <[hidden email]> wrote:

    Alex:
   
    Not to sound too ignorant, what is "FB DV?"
   
    What is Adobe doing with FlashBuilder? If they are deprecating Flash, what use do they have for FlashBuilder? That might be a good code base for a Royale GUI IDE.
   
    Paul R. Stearns
    Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
   
    15280 NW 79th Ct.
    Suite 250
    Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
   
    Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
    Fax: (305)623-4588
   
    ----------------------------------------
    From: Alex Harui <[hidden email]>
    Sent: 3/11/20 11:56 AM
    To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
    Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.
    I hear what you are saying, but I am hopeful that we can build that into your app sort of like an automated testing plugin. Royale will eventually need to support other automated testing libraries and other code that "disappears at production". One of the reasons for having "beads" underneath the components is so that we can more easily add/remove helpful pieces of code to enhance productivity.
   
    IIRC, the FB DV was essentially running your app loaded into a DV Flex app. I am hopeful that Royale is set up so that you can essentially plug in DV functionality into your app (instead of wrapping it, which caused occasional issues in FB).
   
    -Alex
   
    On 3/11/20, 8:48 AM, "Paul Stearns" wrote:
   
    I think we will have to disagree on this.
   
    Three things (that I can think of quickly), which would be difficult without a GUI;
   
    I use quite regularly the alignment capabilities of the IDE, where I select multiple items and align right, left, bottom, middle , top & center. If I have 20 fields on a form I want to align I can't do it visually using the immediate display technique. Additionally when I am initially designing my form, the code may not be complete enough to be displayed in a browser.
   
    I will also often grab multiple items and move them around the screen, with their relative positions intact.
   
    Selecting multiple items and then modifying multiple properties for the selected items.
   
    Doing all of this manually is a waste of valuable developers time, and a step back into the dark ages. Yes having something that displays your changes in near real-time is better than nothing, but hardly a replacement for a good GUI IDE.
   
    Paul R. Stearns
    Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
   
    15280 NW 79th Ct.
    Suite 250
    Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
   
    Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
    Fax: (305)623-4588
   
    ----------------------------------------
    From: Alex Harui
    Sent: 3/11/20 11:19 AM
    To: "[hidden email]"
    Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.
   
    On 3/11/20, 4:43 AM, "Olaf Krueger" wrote:
   
    Hi Paul,
   
    >If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
    to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
    productive.
   
    Not agree.
    Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
    means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
    change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
    takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
    instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.
   
    Hence my hope that someone will make live-editing of Royale MXML work. IMO, Any IDE DesignView equivalent that doesn't use a browser to render is going to have fidelity issues. Live-editing has the potential to be even better than hot-reload for some scenarios.
   
    Of course, I could be wrong...
    -Alex
   
   
   

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Re: GUI IDE need.

flex capacitor
In reply to this post by Alex Harui-2
Hi, I agree that a GUI IDE is needed or would be beneficial. I've
planned Royale as an export target for Web Export but it's been on the
backlog. I've mentioned this in another post but Web Export is a plugin
for Adobe XD that exports artboards to the web. Currently it supports
exporting markup to HTML and CSS.

XD supports all the layout, positioning and design features used for
prototyping.

To support Royale more fully would require some work but it would be
much less work to add in support than write your own design view.

YouTube playlist
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX

Documentation
https://velara-3.gitbook.io/web-export/

More comments inline...

On 3/9/20 11:28 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
> While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that wasn't possible with Flash Player.
>
> IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the browser.

Web Export has a live export feature so that as you make changes it
updates live in the browser (for HTML).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfQQkxi8eG4&list=PLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX&index=10&t=0s

You can have it update the MXML in an existing file or have it write the
MXML document each time it changes.

> The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some button that will then update the MXML.
>
> There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are available at this time.  The main one is that use of view states greatly complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well).  So one question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?

XD supports states in a way. What I've seen from users is they have
different pages and manually switch between them. I think the way XD
creates it's live prototypes is listing all property changes. That
information can be stored in State markup.

If you (or other Flex devs) want to join me on adding Royale support to
Web Export I can add you to the github project and you'll be about one
year further along towards a GUI.

Jude

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Re: GUI IDE need.

Paul Stearns
In reply to this post by Paul Stearns
Alex:

Having not written a GUI IDE, I am a Monday morning quarterback in this regard, but it seems to me;

If Royale's intention is to start as its base most/all of Flex's language then FB would be conceptually a great place to start. However this would only be true were one to use Eclipse as the underlying architecture for the IDE.

Obviously all of the compiling/transpiling & connections to the browser would need to be rewritten. But the GUI and the intellisense stuff would all be done.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588

----------------------------------------
From: Alex Harui <[hidden email]>
Sent: 3/11/20 2:00 PM
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.
FB DV is Flash Builder Design View. I don't think there is much FB code that is useful to the current teams building a Royale IDE. I don't know what the future of FB is, but I don't think there will be future releases.

But some of the principles behind FB's DV, could be applied to live-editing in Royale and I think it would be better than having it in an IDE.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex

On 3/11/20, 10:04 AM, "Paul Stearns" wrote:

Alex:

Not to sound too ignorant, what is "FB DV?"

What is Adobe doing with FlashBuilder? If they are deprecating Flash, what use do they have for FlashBuilder? That might be a good code base for a Royale GUI IDE.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588

----------------------------------------
From: Alex Harui
Sent: 3/11/20 11:56 AM
To: "[hidden email]" , "[hidden email]"
Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.
I hear what you are saying, but I am hopeful that we can build that into your app sort of like an automated testing plugin. Royale will eventually need to support other automated testing libraries and other code that "disappears at production". One of the reasons for having "beads" underneath the components is so that we can more easily add/remove helpful pieces of code to enhance productivity.

IIRC, the FB DV was essentially running your app loaded into a DV Flex app. I am hopeful that Royale is set up so that you can essentially plug in DV functionality into your app (instead of wrapping it, which caused occasional issues in FB).

-Alex

On 3/11/20, 8:48 AM, "Paul Stearns" wrote:

I think we will have to disagree on this.

Three things (that I can think of quickly), which would be difficult without a GUI;

I use quite regularly the alignment capabilities of the IDE, where I select multiple items and align right, left, bottom, middle , top & center. If I have 20 fields on a form I want to align I can't do it visually using the immediate display technique. Additionally when I am initially designing my form, the code may not be complete enough to be displayed in a browser.

I will also often grab multiple items and move them around the screen, with their relative positions intact.

Selecting multiple items and then modifying multiple properties for the selected items.

Doing all of this manually is a waste of valuable developers time, and a step back into the dark ages. Yes having something that displays your changes in near real-time is better than nothing, but hardly a replacement for a good GUI IDE.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588

----------------------------------------
From: Alex Harui
Sent: 3/11/20 11:19 AM
To: "[hidden email]"
Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.

On 3/11/20, 4:43 AM, "Olaf Krueger" wrote:

Hi Paul,

>If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
productive.

Not agree.
Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.

Hence my hope that someone will make live-editing of Royale MXML work. IMO, Any IDE DesignView equivalent that doesn't use a browser to render is going to have fidelity issues. Live-editing has the potential to be even better than hot-reload for some scenarios.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex


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Re: GUI IDE need.

Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek
In reply to this post by flex capacitor
This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor? 


11.03.2020, 19:57, "QA" <[hidden email]>:

> Hi, I agree that a GUI IDE is needed or would be beneficial. I've
> planned Royale as an export target for Web Export but it's been on the
> backlog. I've mentioned this in another post but Web Export is a plugin
> for Adobe XD that exports artboards to the web. Currently it supports
> exporting markup to HTML and CSS.
>
> XD supports all the layout, positioning and design features used for
> prototyping.
>
> To support Royale more fully would require some work but it would be
> much less work to add in support than write your own design view.
>
> YouTube playlist
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX
>
> Documentation
> https://velara-3.gitbook.io/web-export/
>
> More comments inline...
>
> On 3/9/20 11:28 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
>>  While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that wasn't possible with Flash Player.
>>
>>  IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the browser.
>
> Web Export has a live export feature so that as you make changes it
> updates live in the browser (for HTML).
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfQQkxi8eG4&list=PLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX&index=10&t=0s
>
> You can have it update the MXML in an existing file or have it write the
> MXML document each time it changes.
>
>>  The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some button that will then update the MXML.
>>
>>  There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are available at this time. The main one is that use of view states greatly complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well). So one question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
>
> XD supports states in a way. What I've seen from users is they have
> different pages and manually switch between them. I think the way XD
> creates it's live prototypes is listing all property changes. That
> information can be stored in State markup.
>
> If you (or other Flex devs) want to join me on adding Royale support to
> Web Export I can add you to the github project and you'll be about one
> year further along towards a GUI.
>
> Jude
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Re: GUI IDE need.

Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek
This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor?

Does this make any sense?

11.03.2020, 22:43, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" <[hidden email]>:

> This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor?
>
> 11.03.2020, 19:57, "QA" <[hidden email]>:
>>  Hi, I agree that a GUI IDE is needed or would be beneficial. I've
>>  planned Royale as an export target for Web Export but it's been on the
>>  backlog. I've mentioned this in another post but Web Export is a plugin
>>  for Adobe XD that exports artboards to the web. Currently it supports
>>  exporting markup to HTML and CSS.
>>
>>  XD supports all the layout, positioning and design features used for
>>  prototyping.
>>
>>  To support Royale more fully would require some work but it would be
>>  much less work to add in support than write your own design view.
>>
>>  YouTube playlist
>>  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX
>>
>>  Documentation
>>  https://velara-3.gitbook.io/web-export/
>>
>>  More comments inline...
>>
>>  On 3/9/20 11:28 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
>>>   While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that wasn't possible with Flash Player.
>>>
>>>   IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the browser.
>>
>>  Web Export has a live export feature so that as you make changes it
>>  updates live in the browser (for HTML).
>>
>>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfQQkxi8eG4&list=PLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX&index=10&t=0s
>>
>>  You can have it update the MXML in an existing file or have it write the
>>  MXML document each time it changes.
>>
>>>   The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some button that will then update the MXML.
>>>
>>>   There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are available at this time. The main one is that use of view states greatly complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well). So one question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
>>
>>  XD supports states in a way. What I've seen from users is they have
>>  different pages and manually switch between them. I think the way XD
>>  creates it's live prototypes is listing all property changes. That
>>  information can be stored in State markup.
>>
>>  If you (or other Flex devs) want to join me on adding Royale support to
>>  Web Export I can add you to the github project and you'll be about one
>>  year further along towards a GUI.
>>
>>  Jude
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Re: GUI IDE need.

Alex Harui-2
I never looked too closely at the SWF portion of FB DV.  It was a SWF app.  But IIRC, the main work in DV was in the communications between the SWF and the FB Java code in Eclipse that displayed properties and managed alignment and alignment-guides and whatever else DV offered.  IOW, it isn't that much SWF code to handle a request to set or return properties on an object with a particular ID in the DOM.

What I do remember is that the SWF portion was an exception to the rule that the DOM would not have an Application as a child of an Application without a SWFLoader between them.  I would strongly prefer we not tackle those exceptions in Royale.

One thing about Royale that is a bit different from Flex and SWFs is that (hopefully) the Royale Applications do not presume they are essentially the top level node in the DOM.  Maybe Basic Application could assume that it is top-level for simplicity, but other Application tag do not need to presume that and shouldn't.  That's because you don't really know where in the DOM the Royale Application will end up.  In Flex, you could wrap the SWF Object inside any amount of HTML and the SWF Object was a black box and the Flex app ran at the root of the SWF Object.  In Royale, we probably can't and don't want to do that.

What that means is that it should be easier to wrap a Royale Application in other DOM widgets and thus it should be far easier to create property display boxes, alignment guides, selection, and other UI a DV needs in the browser instead of in the IDE.  And the advantage of that is that the browser is doing the rendering so it is truly WYSIWYG.  Any attempt to emulate an HTML renderer in AIR or Java/Eclipse or other IDE platforms would be concerning to me.  I think you would get better fidelity if the IDE would run a browser in a window of the IDE and talk to it, and potentially do most of the UI in that browser window.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex


On 3/14/20, 11:26 AM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" <[hidden email]> wrote:

    This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor?
   
    Does this make any sense?
   
    11.03.2020, 22:43, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" <[hidden email]>:
    > This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor?
    >
    > 11.03.2020, 19:57, "QA" <[hidden email]>:
    >>  Hi, I agree that a GUI IDE is needed or would be beneficial. I've
    >>  planned Royale as an export target for Web Export but it's been on the
    >>  backlog. I've mentioned this in another post but Web Export is a plugin
    >>  for Adobe XD that exports artboards to the web. Currently it supports
    >>  exporting markup to HTML and CSS.
    >>
    >>  XD supports all the layout, positioning and design features used for
    >>  prototyping.
    >>
    >>  To support Royale more fully would require some work but it would be
    >>  much less work to add in support than write your own design view.
    >>
    >>  YouTube playlist
    >>  https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fplaylist%3Flist%3DPLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ce725dd9fb9554a1760a108d7c8452d3f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198071757779259&amp;sdata=oth%2FP5pVUEGwBJ9yKUy8HWBgbVjXeYBQzlnrtyo1700%3D&amp;reserved=0
    >>
    >>  Documentation
    >>  https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvelara-3.gitbook.io%2Fweb-export%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ce725dd9fb9554a1760a108d7c8452d3f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198071757779259&amp;sdata=BWPsL5I5cdOapzep8mu%2FwdNvatQaEvjA4gVV8WeTkIw%3D&amp;reserved=0
    >>
    >>  More comments inline...
    >>
    >>  On 3/9/20 11:28 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
    >>>   While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that wasn't possible with Flash Player.
    >>>
    >>>   IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the browser.
    >>
    >>  Web Export has a live export feature so that as you make changes it
    >>  updates live in the browser (for HTML).
    >>
    >>  https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DkfQQkxi8eG4%26list%3DPLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX%26index%3D10%26t%3D0s&amp;data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ce725dd9fb9554a1760a108d7c8452d3f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198071757789220&amp;sdata=w1NpFDdP7OuzvfwDdpFpMfeIGNP%2BfikpoJulUM%2Fh1J0%3D&amp;reserved=0
    >>
    >>  You can have it update the MXML in an existing file or have it write the
    >>  MXML document each time it changes.
    >>
    >>>   The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some button that will then update the MXML.
    >>>
    >>>   There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are available at this time. The main one is that use of view states greatly complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well). So one question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
    >>
    >>  XD supports states in a way. What I've seen from users is they have
    >>  different pages and manually switch between them. I think the way XD
    >>  creates it's live prototypes is listing all property changes. That
    >>  information can be stored in State markup.
    >>
    >>  If you (or other Flex devs) want to join me on adding Royale support to
    >>  Web Export I can add you to the github project and you'll be about one
    >>  year further along towards a GUI.
    >>
    >>  Jude
   

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