[Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

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[Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

Olaf Krueger
Hi,
I'd like to introduce this discussion thread in relation to the "Life after
FlashPlayer" thread.
You may want to discuss some things or have questions about others'
decisions...

Thanks,
Olaf



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Re: [Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

Olaf Krueger

@Petr Nemecek
>We've decided to go to Java (back to roots)...

Hi Petr,
I just wonder why you don't just move to AIR?
Is it "just" because you have lost all confidence in Adobe?


Thanks,
Olaf






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Re: [Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

Olaf Krueger
In reply to this post by Olaf Krueger
@reisan lukelog

>converting to angularcli some openui5

As an SAP developer, I am interested in your "OpenUI5" experience.
In my perception SAP doesn't push it as they promised years ago and it feels
to me that they are always behind others... but maybe I am wrong...

Thanks,
Olaf



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RE: [Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

Petr Nemecek
In reply to this post by Olaf Krueger
Hi Olaf,

there were two factors:

1) Confidence to Adobe like you mentioned, plus feeling, that Google/Apple
do whatever they want, and eventhough the AIR might be very succesfull on
mobile, they will find a way how to kick it out, if they will decide to do
so. And when it is not on mobile, it is dead. Btw Adobe does not promote AIR
at all, at least I cannot hear anything.

2) We have few CPU intesive parallell algorithms in our app (check rinkai
dot cz), which are written in Java and being run on the server. When we
started 15 years ago, there was just one slow CPU on a normal desktop, and
we had to run it on the server. That has changed, it is common to have 4-8
cores on a desktop, which are faster than the ones on the server, so we will
move the algorithm run onto the desktop client.

Regards,
 Petr

-----Original Message-----
From: Olaf Krueger <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 10:18 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer


@Petr Nemecek
>We've decided to go to Java (back to roots)...

Hi Petr,
I just wonder why you don't just move to AIR?
Is it "just" because you have lost all confidence in Adobe?


Thanks,
Olaf






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RE: [Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

Olaf Krueger
> ...they will find a way how to kick it out, if they will decide to do so.

As I understand it, that's one reason why Adobe is pushing/promoting the
"AIR Captive Runtime" the last years...

However, thanks for sharing your thoughts, Petr!

Olaf



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Re: [Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

alexispring
In reply to this post by Olaf Krueger
The best way i think is to migrate your projects to HTML or Angular etc.
I mean, there're lots of issues coming around Flex lately.
Can't imagine what is going to happen when they cease the support...

Here's a nice and precise article i found, that might help to figure some
staff.
http://www.intexsoft.com/blog/project-migration-from-flex-to-html5-js.html
<http://www.intexsoft.com/blog/project-migration-from-flex-to-html5-js.html>  

Enjoy.



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Re: [Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

Olaf Krueger
Hi,

> I mean, there're lots of issues coming around Flex lately.

What do you mean with issues around Flex?
Adobe has donated the Flex SDK to Apache in 2011 or so, it's open source
and maintained by the Flex community for a long time.


>Here's a nice and precise article i found, that might help to figure some
>staff.

Unfortunately, this guy is speaking about the "Flex death" instead of the
"Flex death in the browser".
This blog post is whether accurate written not helpful for others. It only
unsettles people.
Showing the Flex logo in a trash can is an insult to the entire Flex
community which is driven by volunteers.
I hope that the company behind this guy is better at writing software than
blog posts.

Thanks,
Olaf








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Re: [Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

bilbosax
Olaf, I am very familiar with Flash and with Adobe Air and have used Flex to
develop for both.  Now I mostly do Adobe Air mobile and desktop development.
But if I wanted to get back into the browser bit, I wonder how I would do it
these days.  It looks like most people do HTML5, JS, and CSS.  This is
DEFINITELY not my favorite way to develop.  What frameworks are most people
doing Flash-like work in the browser these days?

If there was any way on earth, I would love to use my current code base used
in AIR and adapt it for the web.  Is FlexJS a possible way to do this, or is
FlexJS limited in the components that it can support?  I really don't know
anything about FlexJS so would appreciate any light you could shed on it for
me!

Thanks!



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Re: [Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

Olaf Krueger
Hi,

>What frameworks are most people doing Flash-like work in the browser these
days?

I guess you find particular ideas of the Flex/Flash world at a lot of those
frameworks out there.
Most mentioned are probably Angular and React.


>Is FlexJS a possible way to do this...

First, please notice that FlexJS is now "Apache Royale [1]"!
Any framework out there is "just" an abstraction layer on top of
HTML5/JS/CSS, including "Apache Royale" (Even if Royale targets not only the
browser).
That said, no framework out there is able to provide more features than the
target browsers are able to process.
The only meaning to use such frameworks is to increase productivity...


> is  FlexJS limited in the components that it can support?  

Apache Royale is designed to provide different component sets.
It provides e.g. a basic component set and e.g. a wrapper around the MDL lib
[2].
Carlos Rovira is currently working on a brand new and very promising
component set which is called "Jewel", very exciting! [3].

Moreover, you should be able to use most of the JS libs out there with
Royale.
"Many other JavaScript frameworks could be made to work with Royale if they
support dynamic instantiation of components." (Taken from the "Apache Royale
Docs" [4])


Hope this helps,
Olaf


[1] https://royale.apache.org/
[2] https://getmdl.io/components/index.html#badges-section
[3] https://royale.apache.org/blog/
[4] https://apache.github.io/royale-docs/Welcome/Get_Started/Frameworks.html







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Re: [Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

ScottM
Hi
    So I am not a deep deep developer, i have been working with Flex for web apps for 7 years and I love it, however from what i have read, it is a significant amount of work to move, there is no one to one mapping of MXML, I also think you have to change code, so there is significant effort,

In use mostly simp,e text box, buttons, repeaters and grids

I am missing something, is Royal real simple ?

from what i can see https://royale.apache.org/creating-a-group-of-jewel-radiobuttons/ <https://royale.apache.org/creating-a-group-of-jewel-radiobuttons/>  royal is good if you have AS3 app with no MXML

MXML is not there and will be some it (if every) to come

Scott



> On 14 May 2018, at 12:28, Olaf Krueger <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>> What frameworks are most people doing Flash-like work in the browser these
> days?
>
> I guess you find particular ideas of the Flex/Flash world at a lot of those
> frameworks out there.
> Most mentioned are probably Angular and React.
>
>
>> Is FlexJS a possible way to do this...
>
> First, please notice that FlexJS is now "Apache Royale [1]"!
> Any framework out there is "just" an abstraction layer on top of
> HTML5/JS/CSS, including "Apache Royale" (Even if Royale targets not only the
> browser).
> That said, no framework out there is able to provide more features than the
> target browsers are able to process.
> The only meaning to use such frameworks is to increase productivity...
>
>
>> is  FlexJS limited in the components that it can support?  
>
> Apache Royale is designed to provide different component sets.
> It provides e.g. a basic component set and e.g. a wrapper around the MDL lib
> [2].
> Carlos Rovira is currently working on a brand new and very promising
> component set which is called "Jewel", very exciting! [3].
>
> Moreover, you should be able to use most of the JS libs out there with
> Royale.
> "Many other JavaScript frameworks could be made to work with Royale if they
> support dynamic instantiation of components." (Taken from the "Apache Royale
> Docs" [4])
>
>
> Hope this helps,
> Olaf
>
>
> [1] https://royale.apache.org/
> [2] https://getmdl.io/components/index.html#badges-section
> [3] https://royale.apache.org/blog/
> [4] https://apache.github.io/royale-docs/Welcome/Get_Started/Frameworks.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://apache-flex-users.2333346.n4.nabble.com/

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Re: [Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

piotrz
Hi Scott,

Definitely if you would like to move your Flex app to Royale you will have
to rewrite you UI part from scratch. There is ongoing effort in Royale
called Emulation [1] which can simply decrease work with rewriting.

However there couple of main points which can really help with moving which
could not get from other framework:
1) You can reach the same productivity as it was in Flex
2) You can move your AS3 code which doesn't have any dependency to Flash
straight to the browser using Royale - This is huge. Imagine huge
application which has HUGE business logic - You won't have to rewrite it at
all! It will just work. :)

[1] https://github.com/apache/royale-asjs/wiki/emulation-components

Thanks,
Piotr

2018-05-14 14:13 GMT+02:00 scott matheson <[hidden email]>:

> Hi
>     So I am not a deep deep developer, i have been working with Flex for
> web apps for 7 years and I love it, however from what i have read, it is a
> significant amount of work to move, there is no one to one mapping of MXML,
> I also think you have to change code, so there is significant effort,
>
> In use mostly simp,e text box, buttons, repeaters and grids
>
> I am missing something, is Royal real simple ?
>
> from what i can see https://royale.apache.org/creating-a-group-of-jewel-
> radiobuttons/ <https://royale.apache.org/creating-a-group-of-jewel-
> radiobuttons/>  royal is good if you have AS3 app with no MXML
>
> MXML is not there and will be some it (if every) to come
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> > On 14 May 2018, at 12:28, Olaf Krueger <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >> What frameworks are most people doing Flash-like work in the browser
> these
> > days?
> >
> > I guess you find particular ideas of the Flex/Flash world at a lot of
> those
> > frameworks out there.
> > Most mentioned are probably Angular and React.
> >
> >
> >> Is FlexJS a possible way to do this...
> >
> > First, please notice that FlexJS is now "Apache Royale [1]"!
> > Any framework out there is "just" an abstraction layer on top of
> > HTML5/JS/CSS, including "Apache Royale" (Even if Royale targets not only
> the
> > browser).
> > That said, no framework out there is able to provide more features than
> the
> > target browsers are able to process.
> > The only meaning to use such frameworks is to increase productivity...
> >
> >
> >> is  FlexJS limited in the components that it can support?
> >
> > Apache Royale is designed to provide different component sets.
> > It provides e.g. a basic component set and e.g. a wrapper around the MDL
> lib
> > [2].
> > Carlos Rovira is currently working on a brand new and very promising
> > component set which is called "Jewel", very exciting! [3].
> >
> > Moreover, you should be able to use most of the JS libs out there with
> > Royale.
> > "Many other JavaScript frameworks could be made to work with Royale if
> they
> > support dynamic instantiation of components." (Taken from the "Apache
> Royale
> > Docs" [4])
> >
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > Olaf
> >
> >
> > [1] https://royale.apache.org/
> > [2] https://getmdl.io/components/index.html#badges-section
> > [3] https://royale.apache.org/blog/
> > [4] https://apache.github.io/royale-docs/Welcome/Get_
> Started/Frameworks.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent from: http://apache-flex-users.2333346.n4.nabble.com/
>
>


--

Piotr Zarzycki

Patreon: *https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki
<https://www.patreon.com/piotrzarzycki>*
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Re: [Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

alexispring
In reply to this post by Olaf Krueger
Hello and thanks for reply.

You see, in this article, we’ve been talking about this situation based on
our company’s experience. Such requests for migration are very frequent at
the moment. So this article is for people who want to migrate their projects
or might be thinking about it like our customers do. But sometimes they
don't know how to start and what technologies to use.

The first thing I would like to clear out is that in the article we
underlined this “death in the browser” in the first part of the article.
You’ll see that if you read the article more thoroughly.

https://goo.gl/ieUyDK

The second thing. The box that you called “trash can” is just a box with a
sign of processing on it. It's just the symbol of the Flex projects revival.
We didn't mean to offend somebody.



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Re: [Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

Olaf Krueger
Hi,
first sorry for my tone but I was a bit annoyed.
I've no concerns with showing alternatives or introducing other
technologies.
Anyone of us has to take care of being up-to-date and always learning new
stuff.

I noticed that you mentioned the browser in your article but what I still
criticize is that from my perception, you in principle speak about the death
of Flex (e.g. "Or how to deal with Flex death").
And this is just not the truth. If you are not depending on the browser,
Flex is still a valuable technology, as well as for existing projects or new
ones.

So in my opinion, "Flex" has to be replaced with "FlashPlayer" in this
article!

Thanks,
Olaf



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Re: [Discussion] Life after FlashPlayer

After24
In reply to this post by alexispring
Hi,

This article is similar to the dozens of other ones involving flash, flash
player, flex and death... most of the time written by people who don't know
a lot about the flash/flex ecosystem.

/" In addition to Flash, they are also going to stop support for Flex, which
is a framework for web-applications based on Flash. That is the reason why
all the projects performed on Flex need to be migrated to new
technologies."/

Adobe has donated the Flex Framework to the Apache foundation years ago, and
as far as I know, the Apache Flex project is still alive so I don't quite
understand who is "going to stop support for Flex" ?

The article omit to say that flex applications executed by the flash player
runtime can be migrated to desktop versions using the AIR runtime. This
option cannot be selected in every case, not for technical reasons, but
because the customer absolutely needs it's application to be executed in a
browser but there is a lot of cases where a desktop version of a web
application is suitable for the client and its customers.

We are currently working on the migration of several applications that have
cost hundreds of thousands  euros to one of our client. For this client, the
Air desktop path was a no brainer for economical and development time
reasons. Once again, a desktop version is not suitable in every cases but
each person (manager, developer) responsible for making a decision related
to the flash player EOL should be able to answer this question : is this
application absolutely needs to be distributed in a web browser ?

/- *What’s your opinion on the end of a Flex-era*?

- I wouldn’t say that I am sorry. There was the time when it was a very good
technology to use. About 10 years ago, when HTML was not yet well developed,
Flex was far ahead. But now, when HTML5 is ahead, Flex solutions are passing
out. The technological possibilities are improving. We need to move forward,
in order to develop and master new technologies./
   
It is obvious that HTML5 technologies have greatly evolved in recent years
but I'm not sure, as this article states, that HTML 5 is ahead. We spent a
considerable amount of time evaluating HTML5 framework for migrating some of
our eLearning tools written in flex : some technical points like advanced
text layout are still extremely hard/impossible to achieve using HTML5,
especially if you need the same level of consistency offered by the flash
runtime.

Vincent.




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