Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

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Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

leokan23
It looks like there are some changes happening to AIR. There was a very
serious issue for a while with 64bit for Android, but today we finally got
some info[1].

Let's see how things will change.

[1]https://services.harman.com/partners/adobe
<https://services.harman.com/partners/adobe>  



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

bilbosax
Was just reading about this on the Adobe forum, but don't think I entirely
understand what is going to happen.  Is Adobe still going to do AIR
development and Harman is just going to provide support, or is Adobe handing
off AIR entirely to Harman and they take over from here??  Will AIR now
become a paid service, if so, how much?  I think I like what I am reading
because it feels like it is going to provide extended life to AIR, but I
have to admit, I don't understand at all what is actually happening.



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

leokan23
Here is the second announcement[1], this time from Adobe, which makes things
a bit clearer.
It looks like AIR development and support is passed to Harman.

A Harman representative said that there is going to be a few tiers
concerning prices, starting with a free tier.

[1]https://theblog.adobe.com/the-future-of-adobe-air/
<https://theblog.adobe.com/the-future-of-adobe-air/>  



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

bilbosax
This sounds a little exciting to me.  From my understanding, Harman has been
involved "behind the scenes" since 2006, so this gives me the impression
that the transition won't be horribly bumpy.  I also like that there will be
a pricing structure to AIR, a paid product is much more likely to be able to
deliver the kind of support and development that we will need.  My only
concern is that I don't know if it will be associated with the Adobe brand
anymore.  I don't know if people will be as excited to sign up for Harman
AIR as they were about Adobe AIR.

How about all of you Flex developers here at Apache?  What does this
announcement mean for all of you? How do you feel about this transition in
AIR?



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

leokan23
For me and my company these were exciting news. We already started moving
mobile apps to flutter, due to Adobe being silent for a while and not
dealing with big issues like the ios12.1 restriction, Android Q crashes and
Android 64bit restriction.

We have been talking with Harman for a few days before the announcement, and
this was better than expected. At least now we can keep legacy apps which
were going to be rewritten from scratch. Paying model is more than welcome.
We already do it with unity and other  tools, so why not with AIR?



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Paulus de B.
I’m actually very exited about this because as said a paid version of AIR for
developers will secure the future. And Harman seems like a logical choice.



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Frost, Andrew
In reply to this post by leokan23
Hi

I just added a little more information into the Adobe forum post [1], hope that helps.

From a Flex perspective, there's still the option to create Flex-based AIR apps, and these will now be supported on Android 64-bit platforms when using the updated SDK, no difference there really.

For web-based applications, they could perhaps be converted to AIR apps (if your customers are okay with having to install an app rather than accessing a browser), or you could look at migrating to a web-native format e.g. via Apache Royale.

We have another option now, which is basically less/zero work in terms of migration effort, which is that we are able to also license the Flash Player beyond the normal (EULA) licensing terms. Which means that it would be possible to wrap up a special version of the player along with a browser engine (e.g. Electron.js) and have this locked to your content, and then this can be distributed (again as it if were an application, so it needs local installing). For security reasons, this is only possible if we lock down the content that the player is able to load, e.g. a whitelisted set of URLs, but it does mean that you can just have an application that goes and displays your existing web page with the Flex content running in it, without having to change anything other than the deployment of the app via this installable package..

Feel free to contact me for more details but I may be slow in replying, my inbox is filling up..!

thanks

    Andrew



[1] https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2603957?start=120&tstart=0


-----Original Message-----
From: bilbosax [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 30 May 2019 21:23
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

This sounds a little exciting to me.  From my understanding, Harman has been involved "behind the scenes" since 2006, so this gives me the impression that the transition won't be horribly bumpy.  I also like that there will be a pricing structure to AIR, a paid product is much more likely to be able to deliver the kind of support and development that we will need.  My only concern is that I don't know if it will be associated with the Adobe brand anymore.  I don't know if people will be as excited to sign up for Harman AIR as they were about Adobe AIR.

How about all of you Flex developers here at Apache?  What does this announcement mean for all of you? How do you feel about this transition in AIR?



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RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Jeff Dafoe


Hi Andrew,



Our organization’s concern, when I mentioned this announcement, is that the Harman-based AIR SDK may institute per-seat licensing. Are there any generalizations you can reveal concerning the future licensing plans? To provide some background, we are converting a major Flex app from browser-based Flash into AIR. My boss essentially had a heart attack when he saw today’s announcement. To provide perspective, our software handles substantial portions of the logistics operations for a company that might be considered the Home Depot of office supplies, as well as other similarly-sized businesses.



Best,

-Jeff



________________________________
From: Frost, Andrew <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2019 5:58:43 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Hi

I just added a little more information into the Adobe forum post [1], hope that helps.

From a Flex perspective, there's still the option to create Flex-based AIR apps, and these will now be supported on Android 64-bit platforms when using the updated SDK, no difference there really.

For web-based applications, they could perhaps be converted to AIR apps (if your customers are okay with having to install an app rather than accessing a browser), or you could look at migrating to a web-native format e.g. via Apache Royale.

We have another option now, which is basically less/zero work in terms of migration effort, which is that we are able to also license the Flash Player beyond the normal (EULA) licensing terms. Which means that it would be possible to wrap up a special version of the player along with a browser engine (e.g. Electron.js) and have this locked to your content, and then this can be distributed (again as it if were an application, so it needs local installing). For security reasons, this is only possible if we lock down the content that the player is able to load, e.g. a whitelisted set of URLs, but it does mean that you can just have an application that goes and displays your existing web page with the Flex content running in it, without having to change anything other than the deployment of the app via this installable package..

Feel free to contact me for more details but I may be slow in replying, my inbox is filling up..!

thanks

    Andrew



[1] https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2603957?start=120&tstart=0


-----Original Message-----
From: bilbosax [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 30 May 2019 21:23
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

This sounds a little exciting to me.  From my understanding, Harman has been involved "behind the scenes" since 2006, so this gives me the impression that the transition won't be horribly bumpy.  I also like that there will be a pricing structure to AIR, a paid product is much more likely to be able to deliver the kind of support and development that we will need.  My only concern is that I don't know if it will be associated with the Adobe brand anymore.  I don't know if people will be as excited to sign up for Harman AIR as they were about Adobe AIR.

How about all of you Flex developers here at Apache?  What does this announcement mean for all of you? How do you feel about this transition in AIR?



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RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Paulus de B.
If it is per seat licensing for the end users we are out.

Per seat licensing for developers is OK.



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RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Frost, Andrew
In reply to this post by leokan23
Interesting! We're currently looking at providing both of these options actually, but I'm curious why you say that? Does the revenue that you get from your applications depend upon the number of users that actually use it, or the number of developers that are involved in its creation..?!

We'd been looking at various models and seeing what folk are using (Unity, Unreal, and some others), there's still some internal discussions to conclude and approvals needed from higher up, but ultimately I think that all the numbers being discussed are going to be pretty competitive and won't break the bank!


cheers

  Andrew


-----Original Message-----
From: Paulus de B. [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 31 May 2019 09:07
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

If it is per seat licensing for the end users we are out.

Per seat licensing for developers is OK.



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RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Paulus de B.
Our revenue model does not depend on the number of users but on how they use
it. So each user (actually client) gets charged a different monthly amount
depending on usage, not on how many users this client has. And by usage, we
mean actual processing done on our servers for our clients. They use the app
to determine what to do, but our servers do the processing (hence we can
charge for usage).

Therefore, with every development tool / IDE / platform / database we have
to select, as soon as there is a per end user license we drop it from our
list of options.

Besides the cost, the per end user license is a nightmare to administer. We
have thousands of users currently using our Flash app which we intend on
migrating to Flex/AIR. With users being added / removed every week I can
tell you upfront we are not going to setup an entire administration just for
license fees. And remember, we are coming from the Flash player in the web
browser which both have no per end user license model.

And what if you want a freemium model? With a per user license you can't
roll out a freemium model because you want users to use your app for free to
start with.

The per end user limits the deployment of apps whereas AIR is such a great
solution to the multi platform problem it should be all over the place.

I completely understand if you are going to maintain and develop the AIR
player you have to get paid. But the per end user route limits the AIR
deployment severely (and thus in the end will actually give you less
revenue).

Don't get me wrong, I love the Flex/AIR combination and we don't mind paying
a (reasonable) developer seat fee for it. But like I said, the per end user
license is a no go will make us drop it from our list.



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RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Frost, Andrew
In reply to this post by leokan23
Okay thanks for the detailed explanation, that makes sense! We should accommodate this, I can't yet give specifics but we're working on that..

thanks

   Andrew


-----Original Message-----
From: Paulus de B. [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 31 May 2019 11:59
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Our revenue model does not depend on the number of users but on how they use it. So each user (actually client) gets charged a different monthly amount depending on usage, not on how many users this client has. And by usage, we mean actual processing done on our servers for our clients. They use the app to determine what to do, but our servers do the processing (hence we can charge for usage).

Therefore, with every development tool / IDE / platform / database we have to select, as soon as there is a per end user license we drop it from our list of options.

Besides the cost, the per end user license is a nightmare to administer. We have thousands of users currently using our Flash app which we intend on migrating to Flex/AIR. With users being added / removed every week I can tell you upfront we are not going to setup an entire administration just for license fees. And remember, we are coming from the Flash player in the web browser which both have no per end user license model.

And what if you want a freemium model? With a per user license you can't roll out a freemium model because you want users to use your app for free to start with.

The per end user limits the deployment of apps whereas AIR is such a great solution to the multi platform problem it should be all over the place.

I completely understand if you are going to maintain and develop the AIR player you have to get paid. But the per end user route limits the AIR deployment severely (and thus in the end will actually give you less revenue).

Don't get me wrong, I love the Flex/AIR combination and we don't mind paying a (reasonable) developer seat fee for it. But like I said, the per end user license is a no go will make us drop it from our list.



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

ScolabAndre
In reply to this post by Paulus de B.
For myself, the company choose 2 month ago to kill the application in the
summer. We choose to focus on the web application and use the web
application on tablet. When a saw the new, I was just "Yeah another bad
public relation message from Adobe", seeing that Adobe give the support to
another company is not a problem, but reading the news and going on the
website with just a teasing with no information on the future pricing just
turn me off.

Le ven. 31 mai 2019, à 06 h 59, Paulus de B. <[hidden email]>
a écrit :

> Our revenue model does not depend on the number of users but on how they
> use
> it. So each user (actually client) gets charged a different monthly amount
> depending on usage, not on how many users this client has. And by usage, we
> mean actual processing done on our servers for our clients. They use the
> app
> to determine what to do, but our servers do the processing (hence we can
> charge for usage).
>
> Therefore, with every development tool / IDE / platform / database we have
> to select, as soon as there is a per end user license we drop it from our
> list of options.
>
> Besides the cost, the per end user license is a nightmare to administer. We
> have thousands of users currently using our Flash app which we intend on
> migrating to Flex/AIR. With users being added / removed every week I can
> tell you upfront we are not going to setup an entire administration just
> for
> license fees. And remember, we are coming from the Flash player in the web
> browser which both have no per end user license model.
>
> And what if you want a freemium model? With a per user license you can't
> roll out a freemium model because you want users to use your app for free
> to
> start with.
>
> The per end user limits the deployment of apps whereas AIR is such a great
> solution to the multi platform problem it should be all over the place.
>
> I completely understand if you are going to maintain and develop the AIR
> player you have to get paid. But the per end user route limits the AIR
> deployment severely (and thus in the end will actually give you less
> revenue).
>
> Don't get me wrong, I love the Flex/AIR combination and we don't mind
> paying
> a (reasonable) developer seat fee for it. But like I said, the per end user
> license is a no go will make us drop it from our list.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://apache-flex-users.2333346.n4.nabble.com/
>


--
André Lacasse, Programmeur, Scolab <https://www.scolab.com/>.
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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

ScottM
In reply to this post by Paulus de B.
Andrew
               All the best with this move, a bit to late for UofS, saying that we may look at some of the options once we see how our html5 project goes on mobile devices

Pricing is interesting, seen all versions of this, from Oracle in 1990’s trying to license end users for the web to consumption base approach

Salesman get all hot and bothered, coming up with new models that will make billions in the first week, years letter you go back to what the really uses told you day one

unix / opens source is a good model for pricing that seems to work  

Scott


Sent from my iPhone

> On 31 May 2019, at 11:59, Paulus de B. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Our revenue model does not depend on the number of users but on how they use
> it. So each user (actually client) gets charged a different monthly amount
> depending on usage, not on how many users this client has. And by usage, we
> mean actual processing done on our servers for our clients. They use the app
> to determine what to do, but our servers do the processing (hence we can
> charge for usage).
>
> Therefore, with every development tool / IDE / platform / database we have
> to select, as soon as there is a per end user license we drop it from our
> list of options.
>
> Besides the cost, the per end user license is a nightmare to administer. We
> have thousands of users currently using our Flash app which we intend on
> migrating to Flex/AIR. With users being added / removed every week I can
> tell you upfront we are not going to setup an entire administration just for
> license fees. And remember, we are coming from the Flash player in the web
> browser which both have no per end user license model.
>
> And what if you want a freemium model? With a per user license you can't
> roll out a freemium model because you want users to use your app for free to
> start with.
>
> The per end user limits the deployment of apps whereas AIR is such a great
> solution to the multi platform problem it should be all over the place.
>
> I completely understand if you are going to maintain and develop the AIR
> player you have to get paid. But the per end user route limits the AIR
> deployment severely (and thus in the end will actually give you less
> revenue).
>
> Don't get me wrong, I love the Flex/AIR combination and we don't mind paying
> a (reasonable) developer seat fee for it. But like I said, the per end user
> license is a no go will make us drop it from our list.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://apache-flex-users.2333346.n4.nabble.com/

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RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

leokan23
In reply to this post by Frost, Andrew
A lot of AIR devs have pointed out that they would prefer paying for AIR if
it meant a good roadmap, communication and support. I agree that my company
wouldn't mind paying a licence / sit or anything similar to Unity (we
already pay them) for similar services.

Can't wait to hear about the plans you come up with :)



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RE: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Tucsonjhall
My product is $99 per user for a year. I don't mind paying my one-seat
developer fee each year (big company of 1), but if it's a per seat license
for users, I'm going to be looking hard at migrating.

I am also very interested in the reaction of some of the main developers
here, like Alex. How does this affect your participation in the Flex Users
Group?



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Alex Harui-2


On 6/2/19, 2:15 PM, "Tucsonjhall" <[hidden email]> wrote:

    My product is $99 per user for a year. I don't mind paying my one-seat
    developer fee each year (big company of 1), but if it's a per seat license
    for users, I'm going to be looking hard at migrating.
   
    I am also very interested in the reaction of some of the main developers
    here, like Alex. How does this affect your participation in the Flex Users
    Group?
 
It does not affect my participation at all.  Adobe continues to pay me to work on Flex and Royale.  I continue to be willing to do so.  And should Adobe change its mind someday, I have the option of finding other people to pay me to work on Flex and Royale.  That is the advantage of Flex and Royale being at Apache.  No corporation has complete control over who contributes to a project.

-Alex
 
   
   
    --
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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Tucsonjhall
That actually is quite reassuring.



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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Carlos Rovira-2
My opinion is that this movement is very interesting. As I read all news I
think it could bring lots of fresh "air" to the AIR platform.
I saw Andrew Involved in Royale and having him as a point of contact with
HARMAN makes the technology "closer" to Flex and Royale.
And seems they are thinking and have many plans to propose for AIR
platform. As well having different tiers (free, payed) seems to me the way
to go to get revenue of the platform

I think right now the main point to ensure AIR continues to be a trusted
platform is to make it always in sync with SO vendors changes and decisions
(iOS Apple Store changes, Android 64bit changes, Mac OS new 10.14.5. notary
process, and more)

So for now all seems very promising! :)


El lun., 3 jun. 2019 a las 6:26, Tucsonjhall (<[hidden email]>)
escribió:

> That actually is quite reassuring.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://apache-flex-users.2333346.n4.nabble.com/
>


--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira
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Re: Adobe AIR Maintenance and support changes

Lydecker
Latest Flex details from Harman:

"We want to ensure that the ‘new’ AIR SDK works with all of your existing
tools/IDEs, and have gone through a few of these internally so far to make
sure this does work. We will still publish a version that is compatible with
the Flex SDK – our aim would be to consolidate these into one, if that’s
technically possible"



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